Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business • Hacker News Board

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#51

Post by paulgb » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

jonathanyc wrote: post #46

andrewzah wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are an insane amount of car accident-related deaths & injuries every year. At least 30,000 deaths/year in the USA alone. Because humans drive tired, drunk, while texting, etc, and sometimes just make mistakes. With fully automated driving the number of crashes (and therefore injuries & deaths) will go down -dramatically-. So you can argue all you want about the ethics & morality of the ~100 deaths/year or so fr…

> With fully automated driving the number of crashes (and therefore injuries & deaths) will go down -dramatically-. So you can argue all you want about the ethics & morality of the ~100 deaths/year or so from automated car crashes. But that's far preferable to the current situation. Why do people (in particular people without robotics experience) keep assuming this will happen any time soon without any evidence whats…

> Why do people (in particular people without robotics experience) keep assuming this will happen any time soon without any evidence whatsoever?

As someone who spends more time cycling than driving, watching videos like this[1] give me more confidence in today’s self-driving technology (assuming good conditions) than in most drivers on the road, even knowing that any internal video is bound to have a dose of propaganda. It’s not entirely even that drivers are to blame; our infrastructure puts cyclists at risk as does the human limitation of only having two eyes.

https://youtu.be/sliYTyRpRB8

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#52

Post by jnsie » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #40

aqme28 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If corporate management knew about and encouraged this behavior, how is that not "Ticketmaster" doing it? IMO both the individuals and the corporation should be held responsible.

I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought here. Corporations can't act, people inside the corporations act. If laws get broken, the individuals who made that choice should pay the price. This wasn't a defense of the company, I'm fine with the company getting fined here, so long as the people who did this get penalized as well. So long as we let companies be a sort of shelter for the people inside the company, this kind…

Kind of like saying "the 49ers didn't lose, their players did"...

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#53

Post by lm28469 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

andrewzah wrote: post #38

anotherman554 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the public should never support self driving cars: the corporation will kill people without consequences.

There are an insane amount of car accident-related deaths & injuries every year. At least 30,000 deaths/year in the USA alone. Because humans drive tired, drunk, while texting, etc, and sometimes just make mistakes. With fully automated driving the number of crashes (and therefore injuries & deaths) will go down -dramatically-. So you can argue all you want about the ethics & morality of the ~100 deaths/year or so fr…

> Because humans drive tired, drunk, while texting, etc,

But I don't. I don't care about 30k deaths a year if I'm killed by a floating point exception or an image reconnaissance glitch making my car think the truck in front of me is part of the sky.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#54

Post by andrewzah » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #53

andrewzah wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are an insane amount of car accident-related deaths & injuries every year. At least 30,000 deaths/year in the USA alone. Because humans drive tired, drunk, while texting, etc, and sometimes just make mistakes. With fully automated driving the number of crashes (and therefore injuries & deaths) will go down -dramatically-. So you can argue all you want about the ethics & morality of the ~100 deaths/year or so fr…

> Because humans drive tired, drunk, while texting, etc, But I don't. I don't care about 30k deaths a year if I'm killed by a floating point exception or an image reconnaissance glitch making my car think the truck in front of me is part of the sky.

And I care about dying from being hit by lightning and airplane crashes. It's statistically so unlikely that it's ridiculous to worry about it.

If you die from a car crash it doesn't matter if it was from a drunk driver or an ai glitch. What matters is which is more likely- and humans are assholes. It will be orders of magnitude more likely to die by a human's hand than a random glitch.

> "But I don't"

I'm glad. Crashes still happen even when 1 party practices defensive driving techniques. Driving sucks.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#55

Post by roywiggins » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

anotherman554 wrote: post #24

NeverFade wrote: post #3

A corporation criminally hacked a rival for profit and got away with a small fine. A person doing the exact same thing would be heading to prison. Seems like the same crime has a very different outcome when a corporation commits it.

This is why the public should never support self driving cars: the corporation will kill people without consequences.

Vehicular homicide is already rarely punished. I don't know if it would make that much practical difference.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#56

Post by soupson » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

Nacdor wrote: post #45

> Ticketmaster has agreed to pay a $10 million criminal fine Live Nation is worth $16 Billion. This is like a person with a $100k net worth having to pay a $62 fine, basically an expensive parking ticket. They might as well tell them to write "I will not hack my competitors" on the blackboard 100 times.

Your point still stands, but a better comparison I think is cash on hand, since valuation doesn’t mean much in terms of paying fines. You can’t pay the government in stock.

LYV had $2.6b on hand last quarter.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#57

Post by hshshs2 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #7

I hate the way this article is worded. Or perhaps the problem is the source documents. "Ticketmaster" didn't do anything. Ticketmaster is a company which cannot make decisions or take actions. - An employee at Ticketmaster stole a password (and financial documents) - Multiple other Ticketmaster employees abused that stolen information to actively attack a competitor. - Ticketmaster management was aware of this and re…

The last class action lawsuit against them resulted in people receiving unusable virtual tickets. I have hundreds of dollars worth. They’re incredibly good at ripping people off.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#58

Post by newen » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

buran77 wrote: post #35

maedla wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be nationalized to become an even better revenue stream

While superficially a good idea, it would probably punish shareholders more than the actual perpetrators and would most likely lead to a far lower performing company, so a weaker economy. How many state run companies do you know are performing great? Tesla may do any number of shady or illegal things but without Musk and his vested interest in the company it would probably be a footnote in some corporate obituary.

Why? It’s not like shareholders are the ones doing the work inside the company.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#59

Post by riffic » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

chipgap98 wrote: post #48

riffic wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you've described crimes and bad decision making processes (humans drive tired, drunk, while texting, etc, and sometimes just make mistakes). The outcomes of those choices are known and have causes which are preventable; they are by definition not accidental in nature. I know it's not intentional but words matter. Crash is a better word 99% of the time than "accident".

An accident is just something that occurs without intention. In the cases you're describing people don't intend to hit another car or person. That makes accident a reasonable label.

Behaviors and design are themselves an intention.

This post addresses "The Semantics of Intention":

https://laist.com/2020/01/03/car_crash_accident_traffic_viol...

excerpt:

Drivers aren't out there aiming for pedestrians and cyclists, so how does intention factor in?

UCLA's Madeline Brozen argues it can be traced back to both failure to follow road safety laws and a lack of understanding about how dangerous driving a car is — especially since unsafe speed is the top contributing factor in L.A. traffic deaths.

Research shows that a pedestrian struck by a driver going 20 mph has an 80% chance of survival. If that driver accelerates to 40 mph and hits a pedestrian, the victim's chance of surviving drops to just 10%.

"The act of going above the speed limit or going fast [in unsafe] road conditions...that is an intention," Brozen said. "When someone is driving in a way that can kill someone, they are creating a risk."

According to John Yi, another "degree of intention" in traffic deaths falls on car-centric society and L.A.'s leaders, who are "intentional about what we're building and what we're not building."

City officials have stated clearly that L.A.'s mission to eliminate traffic deaths is informed by the fact that "underserved communities are disproportionately killed in traffic crashes." But Yi argues that the historic neglect of those communities can be viewed as intentional.

"To take that away, I think, is really not looking at some of the most disinvested communities and what they're going through," he said. "To put it squarely on the shoulders of drivers and say it's their fault and they're the ones who should be moderating behavior is overlooking the situation altogether."

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#60

Post by swsieber » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

jnsie wrote: post #52

ogre_codes wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought here. Corporations can't act, people inside the corporations act. If laws get broken, the individuals who made that choice should pay the price. This wasn't a defense of the company, I'm fine with the company getting fined here, so long as the people who did this get penalized as well. So long as we let companies be a sort of shelter for the people inside the company, this kind…

Kind of like saying "the 49ers didn't lose, their players did"...

No, the equivalent of this in the sports world would be fining a team some thousands of dollars for drug abuse instead of banning the offending players.