Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business • Hacker News Board

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#21

Post by snakeboy » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

yummypaint wrote: post #19

roywiggins wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one actual human has plead guilty: "The charges against Ticketmaster come 26 months after Zeeshan Zaidi, the former head of Ticketmaster’s artist services division, pled guilty in a related case to conspiring to hack the rival company and engage in wired [sic] fraud." He appears to be awaiting sentencing.

Let's say this guy gets 2 years for conspiracy. Not even doing the crime. He loses 2 of about 45 years in the workforce, or vaguely 5% of his lifetime income. For this to be proportional, ticketmaster should lose either 2 full years worth of income, or 5% of all profits in perpetuity. The amount they were fined for actually doing the crime was a rounding error by comparison.

Discussing the length of a prison sentence strictly in terms of income lost is also greatly understating the actual severity of the punishment.

I would gladly give up say 10% of my lifetime earnings for all sorts of things, but I wouldn't trade 4.5 years of my healthy adult life for anything.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#22

Post by aqme28 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #7

I hate the way this article is worded. Or perhaps the problem is the source documents. "Ticketmaster" didn't do anything. Ticketmaster is a company which cannot make decisions or take actions. - An employee at Ticketmaster stole a password (and financial documents) - Multiple other Ticketmaster employees abused that stolen information to actively attack a competitor. - Ticketmaster management was aware of this and re…

If corporate management knew about and encouraged this behavior, how is that not "Ticketmaster" doing it?

IMO both the individuals and the corporation should be held responsible.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#23

Post by mywittyname » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

yummypaint wrote: post #19

roywiggins wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one actual human has plead guilty: "The charges against Ticketmaster come 26 months after Zeeshan Zaidi, the former head of Ticketmaster’s artist services division, pled guilty in a related case to conspiring to hack the rival company and engage in wired [sic] fraud." He appears to be awaiting sentencing.

Let's say this guy gets 2 years for conspiracy. Not even doing the crime. He loses 2 of about 45 years in the workforce, or vaguely 5% of his lifetime income. For this to be proportional, ticketmaster should lose either 2 full years worth of income, or 5% of all profits in perpetuity. The amount they were fined for actually doing the crime was a rounding error by comparison.

I agree, but unfortunately, bribery, I mean, lobbying has a great ROI. It's cheap to buy your way into Congress.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#24

Post by anotherman554 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

NeverFade wrote: post #3

A corporation criminally hacked a rival for profit and got away with a small fine. A person doing the exact same thing would be heading to prison. Seems like the same crime has a very different outcome when a corporation commits it.

This is why the public should never support self driving cars: the corporation will kill people without consequences.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#25

Post by ohyes » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

snakeboy wrote: post #21

yummypaint wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say this guy gets 2 years for conspiracy. Not even doing the crime. He loses 2 of about 45 years in the workforce, or vaguely 5% of his lifetime income. For this to be proportional, ticketmaster should lose either 2 full years worth of income, or 5% of all profits in perpetuity. The amount they were fined for actually doing the crime was a rounding error by comparison.

Discussing the length of a prison sentence strictly in terms of income lost is also greatly understating the actual severity of the punishment. I would gladly give up say 10% of my lifetime earnings for all sorts of things, but I wouldn't trade 4.5 years of my healthy adult life for anything.

> I wouldn't trade 4.5 years of my healthy adult life for anything

But you probably do, just not on purpose. It's smaller decisions that you don't realize involve trading 'healthy adult life' for money/convenience/pleasure/release. And of course, the work hours you put in are very directly trading healthy adult life for money.

Opportunity cost is not something that we, as humans, are particularly good at. It is of course possible that you are exceptional, in which case you can assume I'm speaking from my own fallible experience of existence.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#26

Post by gruez » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

h2odragon wrote: post #20

NeverFade wrote: post #3

A corporation criminally hacked a rival for profit and got away with a small fine. A person doing the exact same thing would be heading to prison. Seems like the same crime has a very different outcome when a corporation commits it.

Some of the "sovereign citizen" folks have a whole mythology based on "incorporated people", it has some appeal in that it'd be nice if there was just one law and it applied to all. Why can't we have our own personal corporations, which can stiff our creditors, cheat customers, etc etc with impunity? Surely all the social benefits of allowing this behavior from groups would only multiply if these liberties extended t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil#Fa...

>Factors that a court may consider when determining whether or not to pierce the corporate veil include the following

>[...]

>Was the corporation being used as a "façade" for dominant shareholder(s) personal dealings; alter ego theory;

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#27

Post by gruez » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

anotherman554 wrote: post #24

NeverFade wrote: post #3

A corporation criminally hacked a rival for profit and got away with a small fine. A person doing the exact same thing would be heading to prison. Seems like the same crime has a very different outcome when a corporation commits it.

This is why the public should never support self driving cars: the corporation will kill people without consequences.

>the corporation will kill people without consequences.

...except the corporation being fined and/or sued in civil court, along with the executives/engineers responsible facing criminal charges.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#28

Post by pacamara619 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #27

anotherman554 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the public should never support self driving cars: the corporation will kill people without consequences.

>the corporation will kill people without consequences. ...except the corporation being fined and/or sued in civil court, along with the executives/engineers responsible facing criminal charges.

It's gonna be the same thing as it is now:

"Tragic. Thoughts and prayers. Software problem. Nothing we could do."

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#29

Post by inetsee » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

g2entgroup wrote: post #8

This is sad that larger companies have a fear of the new kids on the block. When in fact, large companies should be embracing the young companies.

Large companies often embrace young companies. They buy them to eliminate competition.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#30

Post by buran77 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #27

anotherman554 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the public should never support self driving cars: the corporation will kill people without consequences.

>the corporation will kill people without consequences. ...except the corporation being fined and/or sued in civil court, along with the executives/engineers responsible facing criminal charges.

Except they rarely punish individuals, and as long as they are large enough or with plenty of government contracts companies rarely get a punishment that's more than "the cost of doing business".

Look at the GM ignition switch scandal where executives knew explicitly the likely consequences of their decision and yet no real punishment was enacted even after repeatedly lying about the death toll (initially by at least one order of magnitude) that eventually officially reached 124 deaths and likely much higher in reality.

Look at Boeing's 737MAX scandal where executives also knew the likely consequences and worked to go around rules, regulations, certification in order to pretend those consequences won't happen. Both Boeing and authorities either buried or turned a blind eye to reports that this happens. No real punishment here either.

Autonomous cars or not, as long as corporations pay for your laws you will always be on the lower rungs of the ladder.