Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020 • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#191

Post by lastofthemojito » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

kwhitefoot wrote: post #94

lastofthemojito wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the OP meant that electric cars are still cars, and thus encourage car-centric cities with wide streets and lots of space devoted to parking, as opposed to denser, more walkable and bikable cities.

How are all those people who walk around the city going to get there? Norwegians live in quite scattered communities and even though we have better public transport that some other countries it really isn't convenient to time your visit to the nearest town and shopping centre to coincide with the bus timetable. For me a trip to the centre of the nearest town (Drammen, Norway) means a forty minute bus ride and the bus…

Sadly, the problem of designing convenient, efficient, cost-effective public transportation is beyond the capabilities of this HNer. I was merely trying to translate the OP's comment as a lot of people seemed to be missing its intent.

As a side note I've only visited Norway once (and would love to return), but I've heard the phrase "Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlig klær/There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes" countless times, almost as if it were the official motto of Norway. And here you are, fretting about rain at the bus stop, dashing my stereotype of Norwegians as tough, hardy folks, undeterred by even the foulest weather! :)

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#192

Post by cptskippy » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

cat199 wrote: post #172

toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Tesla did what they were attempting to: dragging everyone to EVs faster. Edit: Would governments be starting to implement new combustion vehicle sales bans without robust charging infra and large quantities of EV deliveries quarter after quarter? Unlikely.

> Sounds like Tesla did what they were attempting to: dragging everyone to EVs faster. didn't realise Tesla is behind norwegian gov't support for EVs..

The Norwegian government has been in support of EVs going as far back as the 90s but Tesla demonstrated that EVs could supplant ICE entirely for a large percentage of the population. Prior to Tesla the market options were lacking and couldn't meet the majority of consumer demands.

Now that Tesla has broken through, the incumbent ICE manufacturers are following suit.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#193

Post by throwaway-8c93 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #138

vjuvvadi123 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sums up how tax payers subsidise EVs and some meme company takes the credit

As awful as Tesla is, all the other car manufacturing companies are far far worse. Even with massive government incentives, even with their massive war chests, even with their massive production capacity, even with their access to capital markets for big investments, even then , they didn't make the smart move and had to be shown the path by an annoying megalomaniac who gets way too much attention. So yes, I regret g…

The automakers' behavior makes much more sense once you assume they did their homework, and came out with the same conclusion as everyone else: that the future of personal transport is in battery electric vehicles, and that future implies lower service revenue, slower upgrade cycle, fewer possibilities for brand differentiation, obsolescence of their patent portfolio and large layoffs.

Based on that conclusion, they decided the best overall strategy is to delay that future as long as possible, by any means necessary.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#194

Post by clouddrover » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

chrisjc wrote: post #158

npx13 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it’s correct. VW investing very heavily in MEB platform. ID3 is great fun to drive but VW have much to do on software side.

I'm surprise that the new ID3 even has the volume to compete with Tesla at this point. Does this data include other VW electric vehicles like the Golf E or another model we're not too familiar with? Edit... just to clarify, nothing against the ID3, just pretty surprised VW could have scaled up production so fast even if they're the largest or second largest car company in the world.

> Does this data include other VW electric vehicles

Yes. Volkswagen owns 12 automotive brands: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands-and-models.html

So it includes BEVs from VW, Audi, SEAT, Skoda, and Porsche. Scania and MAN also produce heavy electric vehicles like buses and trucks.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#195

Post by mhh__ » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #190

MisterTea wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no OTA software updates Feature. It's a car and software should be finished when it leaves the factory. Any other excuse is nonsense. > no lane keeping (“autopilot”) on older versions. That's your job and its called driving. If you cant handle that simple task then you should not be driving.

>>That's your job and its called driving. If you cant handle that simple task then you should not be driving. Ah, the "just suck it up and man up" argument. Lovely. I hope you drive a manual car with no power steering no power brakes and no abs. Heaven forbid the car helped you with the sacred art of driving, right?

ABS and power steering are a totally different kettle-of-fish to the car actually steering itself.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#196

Post by audunw » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

lldbg wrote: post #17

TulliusCicero wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not. Oil is used for more than just cars.

Yes, I am aware (why wouldn't I be?). To me it is obvious that the solution to the global climate change crisis isn't rich countries buying new luxorious cars, that happen to be electric. That's a very western-centric view.

> To me it is obvious that the solution to the global climate change crisis isn't rich countries buying new luxorious cars, that happen to be electric.

THE solution? Who has ever said the problem is solved with just one thing?

It's certainly a very important part of the solution. Solving climate change is absolutely impossible without electric vehicles and better batteries. This is not just about driving your SUV to your cabin, it's about transportation of goods, farming, mining etc. We're also seeing that there's overlap in development of EV batteries and grid batteries (at least for short term frequency regulation).. so there's some synergies there that will be important for increasing the share of renewables.

It just happens that personal cars is the easiest vehicle to implement as BEV first. If rich western countries didn't buy them, and China didn't have the foresight to push BEVs hard, the development could easily have taken 10-20 years longer.

> That's a very western-centric view.

Cars are used in non-western countries too. Now that batteries for vehicles are getting cheaper, you're starting to see BEVs become viable at the very bottom of the market as well. Cheap BEVs and cheap renewable energy will be huge for developing countries. You're already starting to see renewable micro-grids giving a much lower barrier to get access to electricity. Importing oil is expensive for a developing country. Importing refined gasoline is even more expensive.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#197

Post by gambiting » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

mhh__ wrote: post #195

gambiting wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That's your job and its called driving. If you cant handle that simple task then you should not be driving. Ah, the "just suck it up and man up" argument. Lovely. I hope you drive a manual car with no power steering no power brakes and no abs. Heaven forbid the car helped you with the sacred art of driving, right?

ABS and power steering are a totally different kettle-of-fish to the car actually steering itself.

"if you can't turn the wheel by yourself you have no business in driving" /s

It's just lane keeping. It helps immensely with focus on long trips.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#198

Post by clouddrover » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #186

epistasis wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As awful as Tesla is, all the other car manufacturing companies are far far worse. Even with massive government incentives, even with their massive war chests, even with their massive production capacity, even with their access to capital markets for big investments, even then , they didn't make the smart move and had to be shown the path by an annoying megalomaniac who gets way too much attention. So yes, I regret g…

I think you've hit on something that a lot of the detractors of Tesla have seemed to have forgotten. The alternatives are Ford, Chevy, Honda and Toyota. While I fully understand that Tesla is no titan of the little man and Musk is a very flawed man, compared to the titans of industry and the sins of the past that these companies are responsible for, it's a little odd that so much vitriol gets thrown toward Tesla and…

> I haven't even mentioned how Tesla is the only company that doesn't sponsor at least one (I think they all sponsor multiple) traditionally powered racing teams, whose development goes into premium powered, traditional gas powered automobiles.

Not exclusively. Formula 1 and Le Mans use hybrid engines. Formula E and Extreme E are battery electric racing series.

Why doesn't Tesla have a Formula E team?

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#199

Post by jokethrowaway » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

thraway2020 wrote: post #177

Norway is subsidizing electric vehicles (with cash) and disincentivizing ICE vehicles (with higher fuel costs and other levers). However, vehicles of all kinds are subsidized by society by other means [0]. If we all paid the true costs of driving, our built environment and society would be structured radically different. [0] "Should Law Subsidize Driving?" by Greg Shill https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstrac…

Even just building roads shaped countries and cities in a certain way.

Killing trains, increasing car usage, encouraging shipping things from far away locations.

Hopefully with the next generation of city planning we won't be so stupid and create environments which are more liveable where people waste less time commuting and buy things as close to home as possible (even if the last point may have more to do with taxation / regulations / working conditions differences in various countries more than roads).

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#200

Post by kingnothing » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

hcurtiss wrote: post #139

kingnothing wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE cars rely on subsidies, why shouldn't EVs? The US federal government subsidizes $20B per year towards fossil fuels across oil, gas, and coal. The EU subsidizes €55B per year towards fossil fuels. https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...

This all depends on your definition of "subsidy." https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillinginfo/2016/02/22/debunki...

That article was written by Drilling Info and reads like a lobbying piece. Here's some info on that company:

Drilling Info has more than 2,700 accounts globally with more than 20,000 users. Drilling Info members produce more than 90 percent of domestic oil and gas in the United States.

They're in the oil and gas business -- of course they want to "debunk" any info about the subsidies given to that industry.