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Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#111

Post by ForHackernews »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #81
vjuvvadi123 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sums up how tax payers subsidise EVs and some meme company takes the credit

Sour grapes. No one was racing to buy Leafs and Bolts, nor EVs with no DC fast charging network. People wanted a great car that happened to be electric, not anemic golf carts.

By all accounts the Leaf and Bolt are great cars (to say nothing of the Toyota Prius & friends), they just don't have the cachet as a status symbol that Tesla does.

I think it's similar to how the iPhone is the sexy mobile, but there's actually far more cheapo Android devices and feature-phones out there in use.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#112

Post by jackson1442 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #107
mhh__ wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the Leaf? Some people just want a car that goes from A to B rather than a to flex on the plebs in a musk-mobile, good as they are.

Range, battery longevity (older versions), lack of fast charge network and charge experience, no OTA software updates, no lane keeping (“autopilot”) on older versions. One can appreciate Tesla and not like Musk. Even as a Tesla investor, not a huge fan. I see him as a necessary evil. The cars sells, and that’s all that’s important.

Also, Leaf uses CHAdeMO to charge, which is neither as fast nor as common as CCS.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#113

Post by kwhitefoot »

giantg2 wrote: post #54
cbmuser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a car in Norway or even from abroad has always been very expensive because of the taxes Norway poses on regular cars: > https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-... Electric cars are exempt from these taxes which is why they are so attractive in Norway for customers. Electric cars are also exempt from road fees. Overall, electric cars in Norway are still getting 2.4 billion USD subsidies per…

Are there any suggestions for how to replace lost revenue that would support infrastructure like roads? In the US roads are mostly maintained by taxes on gas. I would think taxing tires might be a decent replacement, but I haven't seen much conversation on the issue.

The exemptions that electric cars currently enjoy will eventually be phased out so quite a lot of the shortfall will disappear in the future. The only remaining shortfall will be the petrol taxes and I suspect that this will eventually be recouped by some variety of road pricing or mileage tax which will be unfortunate because it is a regressive tax as has been pointed out by another comment here. It is likely to happen because Norwegian authorities are very willing to impose tolls; road pricing or mileage taxes are but a small step from there.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#114

Post by kwhitefoot »

deugtniet wrote: post #37
CydeWeys wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not phasing out the #1 incentive to buy electric cars: Insanely high gasoline prices (nor should they). So I'm not seeing a regression in the making here.

For European standards, Norway's petro; and diesel prices aren't that crazy. When touring through the fjords on a couple of vacations, I've found them comparable to what you have in Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands. Especially considering that Norway's average income is leagues ahead of those countries.

In PPP terms Norway has almost the cheapest petrol in Europe.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#115

Post by mhh__ »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #107
mhh__ wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the Leaf? Some people just want a car that goes from A to B rather than a to flex on the plebs in a musk-mobile, good as they are.

Range, battery longevity (older versions), lack of fast charge network and charge experience, no OTA software updates, no lane keeping (“autopilot”) on older versions. One can appreciate Tesla and not like Musk. Even as a Tesla investor, not a huge fan. I see him as a necessary evil. The cars sells, and that’s all that’s important.

Now find me a tesla for £7k like I can buy a leaf for used.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#116

Post by ForHackernews »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #107
mhh__ wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the Leaf? Some people just want a car that goes from A to B rather than a to flex on the plebs in a musk-mobile, good as they are.

Range, battery longevity (older versions), lack of fast charge network and charge experience, no OTA software updates, no lane keeping (“autopilot”) on older versions. One can appreciate Tesla and not like Musk. Even as a Tesla investor, not a huge fan. I see him as a necessary evil. The cars sells, and that’s all that’s important.

As a software dev, "OTA software updates" on a vehicle I own sounds like a security nightmare / active anti-feature.

I don't need my critical transportation bricked by a failed update, or removing functionality so they can charge me extra to re-enable it, or any of the other nonsense routinely seen from device makers.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#117

Post by kingnothing »

aphextron wrote: post #42
unethical_ban wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we allow a free market to continue producing vehicles that contribute to the degradation of the planet?

>Should we allow a free market to continue producing vehicles that contribute to the degradation of the planet? That's not my argument. It would be a good thing if all governments outlawed ICE consumer vehicles. However, headlines like this are portraying Norway as some kind of progressive utopia where everyone just wants to drive EVs. Obviously you can make people do whatever you want with aggressive enough tax poli…

ICE cars rely on subsidies, why shouldn't EVs?

The US federal government subsidizes $20B per year towards fossil fuels across oil, gas, and coal.

The EU subsidizes €55B per year towards fossil fuels.

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#118

Post by kazen44 »

giantg2 wrote: post #54
cbmuser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a car in Norway or even from abroad has always been very expensive because of the taxes Norway poses on regular cars: > https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-... Electric cars are exempt from these taxes which is why they are so attractive in Norway for customers. Electric cars are also exempt from road fees. Overall, electric cars in Norway are still getting 2.4 billion USD subsidies per…

Are there any suggestions for how to replace lost revenue that would support infrastructure like roads? In the US roads are mostly maintained by taxes on gas. I would think taxing tires might be a decent replacement, but I haven't seen much conversation on the issue.

in most European countries (as far as I am aware) vechiles themselves are taxed in so called road tax.

you pay a higher amount if your car causes more damage to the road.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#119

Post by xbmcuser »

outoftheabyss wrote: post #52
arethuza wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UK, I suspect my first electric car (in a couple of years) will be the new Škoda based on the same platform as the ID.3: https://www.skoda.co.uk/electric-hybrid-cars/enyaq-iv

Still a huge markup on their petrol equivalents, roughly £14k more expensive. Yes you get a few extra bells and whistles and a small grant to help but that difference still has a ways to go

Battery prices are falling 10-15% a year. Add economies of sale for other parts of an electric car and competition as new electric cars keep coming out in 2 years the difference will be less than 8k when the op plans to buy. My prediction is in less than 5 years electric car sticker prices will be cheaper than petrol cars with the bans on new ice cars coming in the few years after that new model ice cars might actually stop coming out as car manufacturers would not want to spend money on what they wont be allowed to sell.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#120

Post by oblio »

jasonv wrote: post #104
oblio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW has created a huge EV platform. You won't see it as much in the US but in Europe they'll probably unleash 40 models covering every category in the next 2-3 years.

I've tried 5+ times to put a deposit on an ID.4 but their site won't take my deposit (I work in fintech and e-commerce, I tried many times, on different machines, using different cards -- their workflow for AWD models seems to have a reversion). I know they're tempering their US launch ambitions a bit, but I wonder if they're seeing lower numbers because something's not working with their reservation system.

I'd hope they have some site monitoring in place to find this error and fix it soon, if that's the case :-)
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