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LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

latimes.com

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Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#101

Post by triceratops »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #95
remote_phone wrote: post #13

Regardless of politics, I think places like LA need to institute a full lockdown. No one leaves their house except to go to the grocery store and pharmacy. No one leaves more than 2 miles away from their residence. It should be enforced by the military. Essentially martial law. It’s not something I suggest lightly. But 6-8 weeks of complete lockdown and pay people to stay home. It’s the only way that California is go…

I was waiting for a military style quarantine earlier on. I still think it should have happened - though it may not be effective since china lied about the numbers BIG TIME and they're cited as the big success story here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-55481397

> china lied about the numbers BIG TIME

I'm sure they lied, but by how much could they have realistically lied? Their death numbers could 10x higher than reported and they'd still be 4x better than the US per-capita. Could they cover up 10x the bodies that have been reported? I'm highly skeptical.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#102

Post by kenhwang »

herdrick wrote: post #96

I can't believe they're rationing oxygen. I administered welding oxygen to my girlfriend every day for about 6 weeks when she had Covid. It's cheap, easy, and perfectly safe. I assumed that when things got bad someone would just suspend the regulation requiring medical certified oxygen.

From what I've read, its a hospital infrastructure problem, not a material shortage problem. The pipes that deliver oxygen to the machines can't deliver oxygen any faster because they're freezing up from the amount of oxygen being used.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#103

Post by saberdancer »

highmastdon wrote: post #71
adrianN wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were such evidence I doubt that so many countries would fuck over their economy with lockdowns, so I have strong doubts about your claim.

Turkey has been treating people with HCQ from May onwards, despite outcomes of the now-retracted(!) study once published in The Lancet, and they have a very low death rate. 256/1M Population. (See: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hydroxychloroquine-corona... ) Their death rate has been on a steady 1% throughout the pandemic where for example Germany is on about 3%. Of course this needs to be corrected for age etc…

The median age in Turkey is 31.5 years.

The median age in Germany is 45.7 years.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#104

Post by Der_Einzige »

triceratops wrote: post #101
Der_Einzige wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was waiting for a military style quarantine earlier on. I still think it should have happened - though it may not be effective since china lied about the numbers BIG TIME and they're cited as the big success story here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-55481397

> china lied about the numbers BIG TIME I'm sure they lied, but by how much could they have realistically lied? Their death numbers could 10x higher than reported and they'd still be 4x better than the US per-capita. Could they cover up 10x the bodies that have been reported? I'm highly skeptical.

China's lockdowns sure helped, but if this BBC article and study it cites (from china's own CDC) is correct, than we have to reckon with the fact that hardcore militarized quarantines still don't solve this problem the way that we would like...

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#105

Post by herdrick »

kenhwang wrote: post #102
herdrick wrote: post #96

I can't believe they're rationing oxygen. I administered welding oxygen to my girlfriend every day for about 6 weeks when she had Covid. It's cheap, easy, and perfectly safe. I assumed that when things got bad someone would just suspend the regulation requiring medical certified oxygen.

From what I've read, its a hospital infrastructure problem, not a material shortage problem. The pipes that deliver oxygen to the machines can't deliver oxygen any faster because they're freezing up from the amount of oxygen being used.

You would carry it into patients' rooms and ambulances in tanks.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#106

Post by kenhwang »

herdrick wrote: post #105
kenhwang wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, its a hospital infrastructure problem, not a material shortage problem. The pipes that deliver oxygen to the machines can't deliver oxygen any faster because they're freezing up from the amount of oxygen being used.

You would carry it into patients' rooms and ambulances in tanks.

There's also a shortage of said tanks.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-29/oxygen-s...

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#107

Post by philjohn »

herdrick wrote: post #96

I can't believe they're rationing oxygen. I administered welding oxygen to my girlfriend every day for about 6 weeks when she had Covid. It's cheap, easy, and perfectly safe. I assumed that when things got bad someone would just suspend the regulation requiring medical certified oxygen.

That struck me as odd as well, although, there could indeed be a shortage.

In UK hospitals it's not so much that there's a shortage, but the oxygen distribution network/lines in hospitals aren't sized for the number of patients requiring it.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#108

Post by throw473388 »

adrianN wrote: post #91
throw473388 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not really a problem, but acceptance is. Making your child obese should be treated as a child abuse. Obese people should be treaded the same way as smokers, not to get disability benefits.

I'm pretty sure people with smoking related COPD get disability benefits.

Good luck with SSA application, if you refuse to stop smoking :)

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#109

Post by jessriedel »

I'm disappointed that all the discussion seems to be operating at a non-quantitative level. ("If there's any chance, we have to try" against "If circulation can't be reestablished on scene, there's essentially no hope".) Presumably there are academic article that make an attempt at this.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#110

Post by adrianN »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #94
jsnell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people did not have Covid before the tests were available. You know how we can tell? Because we did not have a lot of people hospitalised or even die with an undiagnosed mystery pneumonia. (There are other ways we can then cross validate that.) You have somehow internalised a gross mistruth as a fact, have realized it is inconsistent with reality, and are now trying to patch up the inconsistencies by positin…

Actually, a lot of people DID have it before tests were available. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-09/covid-19-...

For varying amounts of "a lot".
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