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LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

latimes.com

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Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#71

Post by highmastdon »

adrianN wrote: post #30
highmastdon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s enough evidence for medication and preventive supplements (Ivermectin, Vitamin D) that lockdowns aren’t necessary anymore. Other treatments have looked promising when applied early in the disease instead of after hospitalisation. According to combined research (c19study.com) over 800,000 lives could’ve been saved when treated earlier

If there were such evidence I doubt that so many countries would fuck over their economy with lockdowns, so I have strong doubts about your claim.

Turkey has been treating people with HCQ from May onwards, despite outcomes of the now-retracted(!) study once published in The Lancet, and they have a very low death rate. 256/1M Population. (See: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hydroxychloroquine-corona...) Their death rate has been on a steady 1% throughout the pandemic where for example Germany is on about 3%. Of course this needs to be corrected for age etc etc.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#72

Post by dawnerd »

baskire wrote: post #48
throw473388 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, next time you will tell people to exercise and not to be morbidly obese. BTW read the article, it talks about already dead people with no pulse.

I’m curious if covid will finally change the liberal belief that being morbidly obese is ok and shouldn’t be viewed similar to smoking. Our food policies have failed us. Like honestly allowing a single serving of food/drink to have multiple “servings” on their labels is crazy. A single hot-bun is 1 serving not 2.5

Yea I think you got the sides mixed up there. The only time I’ve heard a liberal defend obesity was in response to body shaming - which is a problem and doesn’t help the person get in shape.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#73

Post by throw473388 »

gizmo686 wrote: post #69
baskire wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious if covid will finally change the liberal belief that being morbidly obese is ok and shouldn’t be viewed similar to smoking. Our food policies have failed us. Like honestly allowing a single serving of food/drink to have multiple “servings” on their labels is crazy. A single hot-bun is 1 serving not 2.5

It is not the mainstream liberal position that obesity is not a health issue. Michele Obama is still one of the most popular figures in American politics; and her signature issue was fighting childhood obesity.

That is not really a problem, but acceptance is. Making your child obese should be treated as a child abuse. Obese people should be treaded the same way as smokers, not to get disability benefits.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#74

Post by kepler1 »

The medical system is stretched to breaking. Vaccine distribution is completely disorganized, despite months of possible preparation time. A ridiculous patchwork of federal, state, county authorities can't get it together to enforce rules and can only ask for voluntary cooperation in a true crisis.

I think we will look back on this as one of the great weaknesses of decentralized, democratic, random-walk governance, fueled by misinformation and lack of leadership.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#75

Post by function_seven »

wukerplank wrote: post #55
andi999 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so normally such patients are transported? For what? Billing purposes?

So, leave the body by the curb?

I would assume a coroner or funeral home would handle the body.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#76

Post by Faaak »

GavinMcG wrote: post #66
songgao wrote: post #41

This might be an unpopular opinion but this is a pretty awful headline and it makes it look way worse than what the EMS documents actually say. There’s a bold text [1] “shall not be transported if return of spontaneous circulation is not achieved in the field”. There’s a pretty big difference between abandoning patients with little chance of survival in general, and giving up after failure to achieve ROSC. Perhaps at…

In emergency medicine, you've got patients who are dead, and patients who are dead dead. Patients who are just dead might still be brought back. This isn't about them. Patients who are dead dead because they haven't responded to resuscitation efforts aren't going to be taken to the hospital, is all. And in a lot of places that's already the norm.

Don't they need to be brought to the hospital for organ donation though ?

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#77

Post by free652 »

baskire wrote: post #48
throw473388 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, next time you will tell people to exercise and not to be morbidly obese. BTW read the article, it talks about already dead people with no pulse.

I’m curious if covid will finally change the liberal belief that being morbidly obese is ok and shouldn’t be viewed similar to smoking. Our food policies have failed us. Like honestly allowing a single serving of food/drink to have multiple “servings” on their labels is crazy. A single hot-bun is 1 serving not 2.5

Liberal? Why throw politics into this? I am going to bet that conservatives are fatter on average than liberals.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#78

Post by taxicabjesus »

stordoff wrote: post #64
taxicabjesus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commonly-used treatments for hypoxia are incredibly damaging. In the beginning "ventilation" was the go-to treatment to pump oxygen into patients' lungs. Doctors eventually realized invasive ventilation was a death sentence. Now they're trying to just use lots of oxygen, but that doesn't work either. A lot of people had COVID-19 before tests were available. What happened to make the disease so much more deadly? I…

> Now they're trying to just use lots of oxygen, but that doesn't work either. Do you have a citation? I was hospitalised with Covid-19, and that was my primary treatment (100% oxygen CPAP was required to keep my O2 sats above 90% - high flow nasal oxygen would cause it to dip below 90).

> Do you have a citation?

Visit my HN profile, then my submissions... The one from 8 months ago (April 2020 or so) was a study about how aggressive oxygenation to get patients' oxygen sats above an arbitrary threshold was not helpful.

Physiological stress makes it hard for the body to use oxygen efficiently, and just pumping more oxygen into people doesn't fix the fundamental problem. I'm glad you survived -- suffice it to say that I think everyone who hasn't yet reached their expiration date has tremendously more potential to recover.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#79

Post by dawnerd »

remote_phone wrote: post #13

Regardless of politics, I think places like LA need to institute a full lockdown. No one leaves their house except to go to the grocery store and pharmacy. No one leaves more than 2 miles away from their residence. It should be enforced by the military. Essentially martial law. It’s not something I suggest lightly. But 6-8 weeks of complete lockdown and pay people to stay home. It’s the only way that California is go…

I know you’re being downvoted by the open everything up crowd but I agree. People have proven they can’t follow the guidelines multiple times, there’s been plenty of chances. Quite frankly it’s an embarrassment. I can only imagine how bad it would be if they acted like Florida and allowed the theme parks to open.

But yeah, once hospitals are full the national guard really needs to step in and take over.

Re: LA: Ambulance crews to not transport patients with little chance of survival

#80

Post by taxicabjesus »

jsnell wrote: post #27
taxicabjesus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commonly-used treatments for hypoxia are incredibly damaging. In the beginning "ventilation" was the go-to treatment to pump oxygen into patients' lungs. Doctors eventually realized invasive ventilation was a death sentence. Now they're trying to just use lots of oxygen, but that doesn't work either. A lot of people had COVID-19 before tests were available. What happened to make the disease so much more deadly? I…

A lot of people did not have Covid before the tests were available. You know how we can tell? Because we did not have a lot of people hospitalised or even die with an undiagnosed mystery pneumonia. (There are other ways we can then cross validate that.) You have somehow internalised a gross mistruth as a fact, have realized it is inconsistent with reality, and are now trying to patch up the inconsistencies by positin…

> (There are other ways we can then cross validate that.)

Tell me more, I'm interested.

> by positing that the virus became more deadly.

I posit that inappropriate treatments make the virus more deadly than it has to be.

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