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Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#181

Post by Daishiman »

djsumdog wrote: post #173
Daishiman wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the stupidest comment I have read in this thread.

The fact that you cannot see any of these problems or understand how they are fracturing people and groups all around the world is part of the problem itself. These are all highly legitimate concerns you just dismiss with a whimsical "that's stupid." People who just accept masks and advocate for them immediately without question are also very likely to murder the person in the other room in the Stanley Milgram experi…

No, I have personally seen each and every problem, and most everyone has seen them prima facie, and it boggles my mind how even so there can be a value judgement against masks.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#182

Post by rusk »

nickpp wrote: post #131
rusk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol spreads COVID. Not exactly ... but it breaks down social barriers and can cause people to be careless. If we had banned or at least curtailed alcoholic sales I can guarantee you probably the numbers would be half what they are now. A big problem is that once you close pubs clubs and other outlets then people start having secret house parties and these are very hard to police. I guarantee you, that even the be…

> if we could have just knuckled down at the start and endured some discomfort we would be pretty much over it by now Didn’t we do just that in the spring?

You and I did maybe.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#183

Post by rusk »

djsumdog wrote: post #110
rusk wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but this is derived from actual contact tracing (not the UK where they haven’t really bothered but a culturally similar neighbour) - but of course you’re so outraged that’s what matters more. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overloo... This article is about 6 months old, and we’ve moved on even more since then. It’s so saddening to see so many bright people unable to keep up. Tell me again a…

Can you post a link on the evidence for contact tracking in the UK and the data analysis please? I genuinely want to see it. Edit: the poster updated the post with an article rather than adding a comment. It wasn't there when I commented. Also an article from The Atlantic isn't data analysis.

Sorry. Ran out of comments. Wasn’t trying to engage with you though so much as flesh out my argument. Good Luck!

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#184

Post by ketamine__ »

rusk wrote: post #161
qeternity wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliant logic there. And if I cross the street, I might get hit by a bus. Let's ban cars. You seem to be struggling that this is a hugely complex situation that might call for slightly more sophisticated logic than you're apparently capable of. > What happens when hospitals are overrun with patients with ‘mild’ symptoms? Um wow tough one. Maybe prioritize severe cases like we have been doing for the past 9 months w…

It’s the economy, stupid. All you guys trying to find excuses to keep on going as normal because “the economy” are engaged in myopic, short-termist thinking. If the health service is smashed and nobody can do anything because the rate of infection is out of control then that ultimately destroys the economy. You have to see the big picture . How long will it be and how much evidence do we have to see before you will j…

If lockdown edicts weren't in place people would be out spending money.

So yes, the economy is fine with a high infection rate.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#185

Post by ketamine__ »

Daishiman wrote: post #39
qeternity wrote: post #11

In the UK, 95% of the deaths are people over 60. There are more deaths for people over 90 than under 70. When are we going to start putting all these efforts and resources into focusing on the vulnerable populations and not painting with a broad brush. We know that lockdowns are too blunt an instrument which is why most of Europe is having to engage in ever more draconian measures. We are mortgaging our future here,…

Everybody is asking the hard questions and the hard answer is that it is downright impossible to isolate the most vulnerable from the general population. Tried and attempted in multiple places; turns out you only need one nurse, one doctor, one caretaker, one young kid in a large household to infect those people. Maybe, just maybe, the experts (and I mean the people who have spent their lifetimes studying the transmi…

Everyone must lockdown because medical professionals are infecting the vulnerable? Perhaps those that are doing the infecting should be quarantined?

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#186

Post by ketamine__ »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #65
malka wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because UK is not a dictatorship. China is.

By that logic when the UK should have done nothing as Germany Invaded Poland and France. And then nothing as German troops landed. The real fact is people that argue and resist taking action against Covid because 'mah freedumbs' are seriously undermining democratic governments. Basically making authoritarian governments point for them.

Lots of politicians are refusing to get the vaccine. Something about waiting their turn. That seriously undermines democratic governments in a pandemic.

I don't understand mocking freedoms. There are many people in nursing homes that want to see their families but can't. They are angry because the caretakers can see their families but they can't. Will you mock them too?

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#187

Post by ketamine__ »

waterglassFull wrote: post #115
iridium_core wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia also forecasts that it will increase its Federal debt by AUD$500 billion due to the pandemic - AUD$20,000 per person. Meanwhile aged care deaths in the most heavily affected state, Victoria, are actually down 1,000 YoY. Its almost certain that the majority of the COVID deaths that did occur in Melbourne were with COVID - ie. people of advanced age and serious existing health conditions who would have died a…

My comments weren't about Australian financials; however the lockdown isn't the only contributor - The political fallout between China and Australia is worsening, the long term ramifications don't look good. This isn't attributibal to the lockdown. - Australia's short term economy is currently recovering well after lockdown [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/australia-economy-budget/aus...

The fallout between China and Australia is because of Australia's incredibly aggressive Covid strategy and rhetoric.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#188

Post by rusk »

ketamine__ wrote: post #184
rusk wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the economy, stupid. All you guys trying to find excuses to keep on going as normal because “the economy” are engaged in myopic, short-termist thinking. If the health service is smashed and nobody can do anything because the rate of infection is out of control then that ultimately destroys the economy. You have to see the big picture . How long will it be and how much evidence do we have to see before you will j…

If lockdown edicts weren't in place people would be out spending money. So yes, the economy is fine with a high infection rate.

You’re a fool if you think that’s all it takes to sustain an economy.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#189

Post by read_if_gay_ »

djsumdog wrote: post #177
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you considered that these measures are _temporary_? I will never consider this given the excesses and absolute indefensible failures of the emergency powers introduced in service of the Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/etc. wars. Nothing has been rolled back. Emergency powers should never be treated as temporary given history. > Personally, it seems like objections to basic preventive measures, such as wearing a mask, a…

> Emergency powers should never be treated as temporary given history The TSA. Body Scanners. Removing your shoes (America only; it's the only country out of the 10+ I've flow through that forced you to still remove your shoes. Some people do it in other places out of habit, but no one else actually requires it). > Entitlement? Entitlement is how to describe every comfy white collar worker that rolls out of bed and h…

> The numbers are really clear on mask usage.

Do you have sources? Legitimately interested.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#190

Post by waterglassFull »

ketamine__ wrote: post #187
waterglassFull wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comments weren't about Australian financials; however the lockdown isn't the only contributor - The political fallout between China and Australia is worsening, the long term ramifications don't look good. This isn't attributibal to the lockdown. - Australia's short term economy is currently recovering well after lockdown [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/australia-economy-budget/aus...

The fallout between China and Australia is because of Australia's incredibly aggressive Covid strategy and rhetoric.

The COVID strategy isn't the reason for their fallout. It is the government's attack on the CCP and pushing for an inquiry.
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