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Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#111

Post by uncledave »

ubercow13 wrote: post #101
uncledave wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to look at the future not just now. The overall side effects of burning care now may have a higher body count than covid. Case in point if you look at the austerity policy attributed deaths as a reference. I know someone who just got handed a guaranteed poor cancer outcome because her preventative surgery will only be done when it’s an emergency later on. These will be easy to write off as incidental…

All of that is bad, but I don't think avoiding lockdown or other measures would help with it. The images in the media of people dying in the street outside hospitals would just lead to more social/political pressure to deprioritise those cancer patients.

Translated it’d make the politicians look bad for all those cuts.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#112

Post by toolz »

waterglassFull wrote: post #20
sonotmyname wrote: post #2

Woohoo - more inconsistent and unscientific policies! * Restaurants can continue to offer delivery for food, but takeaway alcohol will be banned __ So alcohol spreads COVID? Good thing restaurants don't count on alcohol sales to stay afloat. * Amateur team sports are not allowed, but elite sport such as Premier League football can continue __ 'Elite' athletes, as is the case for the rest of the 'elites', should not h…

"__ So alcohol spreads COVID? Good thing restaurants don't count on alcohol sales to stay afloat." The problem isn't the take-away alcohol itself, the problem is what people do with it. We routinely get people around our area (East London) who buy take-away beer - stand two meters away from the pub - and drink it with their friends. It promotes people spreading COVID. The UK government aren't confident enough to actu…

There isn't any science there, just conjecture from the government on how their restrictions will alter social behavior. It's rather mind blowing to me after seeing extremely well funded and massive projects like the war on drugs in the U.S. fail, to now where the government thinks it can successfully push society in the right direction with even more drastic measures.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#113

Post by qeternity »

Silhouette wrote: post #106
qeternity wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they aren't. NHS occupancy in 2020 was lower than in 2019. We are currently 50% below our peak ventilator usage in April and the 7 day trend is very flat. This is just not true. Go look at the data instead of parroting headlines. EDIT Lol again downvotes but no replies. Does anyone want to bother educating me on this topic and showing me where hospitals are filling up? I would love to see it, because the NHS figur…

Go look at the data instead of parroting headlines. Or, even better, talk to anyone who works in a front-line NHS role, particularly in areas like A&E/intensive care. People who understand the context of the statistics and how they translate to real standards of patient care do not think everything is OK right now. As it happens, I've spent some time over the past few days travelling to and from various medical facil…

> Or, even better, talk to anyone who works in a front-line NHS role, particularly in areas like A&E/intensive care. People who understand the context of the statistics and how they translate to real standards of patient care do not think everything is OK right now.

Yeah I know that, my best mates girlfriend is a doctor. But that's not at all proof of anything. There is a reason that wars aren't planned and architected by the foot soldier in the trench. They don't have perspective and the task at hand detracts from the bigger picture. I have the utmost respect for our NHS heroes but front line personnel are the last people you should ask. They have been put through hell over the past year and if I were in their shoes I would be ready to keel over. And that's exactly why these individuals shouldn't be calling the shots...they're just seeing one part of the puzzle.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#114

Post by CodeGlitch »

pageandrew wrote: post #59
edoceo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your point is that life and health are being traded is not the case - since these measures are to keep people alive and healthy. I agree there is some cost but let's not get hyperbolic.

Gyms and organized sports are closed. Most people are living sedentary lives. Activities that young children rely on for physical development and exercise are non existent. Many children haven't socialized with someone their age in almost a year. Children are unable to focus on school and are being under-educated. Depression rates amongst school age children have skyrocketed. It is not hyperbolic to say that health a…

My family's experience is the exact opposite of what you describe. I've never been healthier because most of last year I had time to go for daily exercise instead of sitting in a car commuting. I took my young daughter out with me a lot of the time. My wife also took advantage of the daily outings. Our mental health is probably better than it has ever been because we get to spend more time with each other rather than with a bunch of guys in the office.

Education wise, my wife has used the opportunity to dip her toes into teaching - which is something she always wanted to try. I realise not everyone wants to be a teacher, but you never know.

The situation is what you make of it.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#115

Post by waterglassFull »

iridium_core wrote: post #99
waterglassFull wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took Victoria, Melbourne over three months of a hard lockdown to get the numbers to Zero. If you compare some of the attitudes in both policing and policy to Australia and the response between parties you'll understand why the UK can never get there. Consider this: - Victoria handed out 20K~ fines by August 26 [1] - England & Wales handed out 25K~ fines between 27 March and 16 November [2] - The UK has 120K~ polic…

Australia also forecasts that it will increase its Federal debt by AUD$500 billion due to the pandemic - AUD$20,000 per person. Meanwhile aged care deaths in the most heavily affected state, Victoria, are actually down 1,000 YoY. Its almost certain that the majority of the COVID deaths that did occur in Melbourne were with COVID - ie. people of advanced age and serious existing health conditions who would have died a…

My comments weren't about Australian financials; however the lockdown isn't the only contributor

- The political fallout between China and Australia is worsening, the long term ramifications don't look good. This isn't attributibal to the lockdown.

- Australia's short term economy is currently recovering well after lockdown [1]

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/australia-economy-budget/aus...

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#116

Post by pageandrew »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #114
pageandrew wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gyms and organized sports are closed. Most people are living sedentary lives. Activities that young children rely on for physical development and exercise are non existent. Many children haven't socialized with someone their age in almost a year. Children are unable to focus on school and are being under-educated. Depression rates amongst school age children have skyrocketed. It is not hyperbolic to say that health a…

My family's experience is the exact opposite of what you describe. I've never been healthier because most of last year I had time to go for daily exercise instead of sitting in a car commuting. I took my young daughter out with me a lot of the time. My wife also took advantage of the daily outings. Our mental health is probably better than it has ever been because we get to spend more time with each other rather than…

My experience is the exact opposite of what you describe. I've experienced depression and anxiety for the first time in my life, due to most fun things in my life disappearing overnight (due to mainly involving socialization). The future is bleak. I've gotten pretty decent at guitar though. That doesn't replace seeing friends though unfortunately.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#117

Post by oarabbus_ »

foota wrote: post #9
sonotmyname wrote: post #2

Woohoo - more inconsistent and unscientific policies! * Restaurants can continue to offer delivery for food, but takeaway alcohol will be banned __ So alcohol spreads COVID? Good thing restaurants don't count on alcohol sales to stay afloat. * Amateur team sports are not allowed, but elite sport such as Premier League football can continue __ 'Elite' athletes, as is the case for the rest of the 'elites', should not h…

It does make sense imo to allow elite sports to continue while banning amateurs, there are relatively few elite players so the additional risk overall is low.

It has little or nothing to do with risk. Professional athletes make extraordinary sums of money, and some percentage of that is given to the government via taxes. Amateur sports generates little to no money; therefore, the government doesn't allow it.

See also: here in California, churches/synagogues/temples are closed, while liquor stores and marijuana shops are considered "essential businesses". Film crews are allowed to operate in mass numbers outdoors, but not distanced patio dining.

It seems pretty clear it's all about the $$$.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#118

Post by Daishiman »

qeternity wrote: post #80
Daishiman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the vast number of excess deaths of old but healthy people and the human cost of the people who continue to show symptoms months after initial infection, I would say your calculations are just wrong.

Excess deaths globally for 2020 will end up being about 2.5% Is that vast?

It's 13% higher in England, which yes, I would characterize as vast.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#119

Post by CodeGlitch »

iridium_core wrote: post #62
chacha2 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitals are quickly filling up, young people need hospitals as much as anyone. What's your suggestion, allow elderly covid patients to die at home?

Overflow hospitals in the UK have never been used: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-patients-england-ni... The UK Government is arresting people who film empty hospitals: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13619752/moment-anti-covid-loc... Meanwhile less than 400 people under age 50 have died with/of COVID in the UK. The fundamental driver of this pandemic is the ill-health of the population - driven by sugar (obe…

> The fundamental driver of this pandemic is the ill-health of the population - driven by sugar (obesity), coal and oil (air pollution), as well as Vitamin (D) deficiencies - but these factors receive no attention

I was saying this at the start of the pandemic. The UK is approaching US -levels of obesity, but now we have "fat shaming" whereby any mention of overweight people being unhealthy is socially unacceptable; and showing skinny people in adverts on the London Undergound causes "offence". I wonder if this particular world-view will reverse in the coming years?

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