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A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#691

Post by Bakary »

kortilla wrote: post #611
onion2k wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems clear to me that these are people who are unwilling to sacrifice some of the money they earn to follow their ideals and principles, so they are trying this instead. Employees pushing for change from the inside is probably the only thing that could ever make Google change, so this is absolutely a good thing. If you are an engineer at Google and can't get a job somewhere else, I don't know what to tell you. So…

Oh, the perils of having a 600k TC job and having to step down to a job only clearing 250k while you climb the ladder again. Oh those poor senior Google SWEs. That’s not being trapped. That’s being greedy. There’s nothing wrong with trying to preserve massive TCs with the WLB of Google but let’s not pretend there is actually any plight here.

I would fully encourage any FAANG employee to be as greedy and disruptive as possible. Anything that weakens the massively increasing power of these companies is a good thing for the population at large.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#692

Post by Apocryphon »

will4274 wrote: post #665
maxehmookau wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could provide a list of European tech innovations over the last decade, but I sense you're not looking to engage in good faith.

Sure, I'd be interested in your list of European tech companies that have innovated a comparable amount to Google. Whatcha got?

Saw this one the other day:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25605151

There's also ASML, which was a focus of that thread's discussion.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#693

Post by dls2016 »

gandutraveler wrote: post #307
boomlinde wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better". I.e. not collectively bargaining, instead hoping that enough other people will individually decide put their livelihood on the line to give employers the impression that things should change up, after which they will not be able to enjoy the changes because they switched job (which can be a pain in the ass regardless…

All unions end up being political. The elected union leaders are voted and the democratic process compels the leaders take decision that helps them stay in power. This is what causes the problem where you have elected union leader whose values don't align with helping companies bottom line. This will be the slow death of Google as the company we know. Can't wait to see right wing and left wing groups forming within G…

> All unions end up being political.

You say this like it's a bad thing. Instead, we've just been conditioned as "professional" employees to not talk politics in the one place where we have a modicum of control over how resources are allocated in society.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#694

Post by maxehmookau »

will4274 wrote: post #665
maxehmookau wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could provide a list of European tech innovations over the last decade, but I sense you're not looking to engage in good faith.

Sure, I'd be interested in your list of European tech companies that have innovated a comparable amount to Google. Whatcha got?

I'm not sure a monopoly like Google is something to aspire to. Europe is full of amazing copmanies doing innovative things. If Google is your ultimate measure of success though, you're right, my list won't keep up.

Arm Ocado TransferWise Skype Nokia Skyscanner ASOS Klarna Spotify Deliveroo Rovio

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#695

Post by esoterica »

apexalpha wrote: post #28

Good for them. I work for a large company and am a member of the union. While they're not perfect they're very constructive and provide a lot of benefits to all employees, and also to the company itself. Compensation has become very complex over the years. While most people understand their pay the rest is usually where employers cheap out, things like insurance, sick pay, long-term provider care, pension contributio…

> pension contribution

Pensions are horrifically anti-worker. You're basically withholding X% of someone's pay for 40 years, and also confiscating that pay if they don't stay at the same company until the pension vests (so people cannot leave without incurring a huge financial penalty even if they hate their job and can find better options elsewhere).

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#697

Post by halflings »

On this group's homepage [1]: "We are BIPOC workers who fight against totalitarianism."

I am not sure what this has to do with unionizing Google workers. Using obscure acronyms to arbitrarily focus on race and ethnicity (something frowned upon here in Europe at least) + the hyperbole of "fighting totalitarianism" doesn't give me great confidence that this is representing workers, as much as it is pushing the ideology of a vocal minority.

If they truly believe they represent the majority of Google employees, then they are free to widely share this call internally and see how many people actually agree with them and want to join their group. So far, it's ~0.2K out of ~260K employees.

[1] https://alphabetworkersunion.org/

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#698

Post by grogenaut »

avianlyric wrote: post #84
karl11 wrote: post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

> People don't want to leave a cushy job for one where they would have to work harder for their money, so instead, they are trying other means to have their cake and eat it too. You're saying this like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't employees expect, and get, better working conditions? > engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" How is individuals leaving "coll…

Honest question: how do unions help with sexual harassment? The me too movement seemed much more focused on hollywood. Unions didn't seem to stop Weinstein.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#699

Post by gnopgnip »

piker wrote: post #156

Honest question: are there good examples of unionized companies that continue to innovate post unionization? Unionization seems at the surface like the end stage of disruptor where stakeholders begin jockeying for slices of a pie that now grows linearly.

The entire economy of Germany

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#700

Post by AlexandrB »

panarky wrote: post #471
scsilver wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I full on support their goal to clean up their yard before moving somewhere else. Employees are stakeholders and can use their leverage as they please. You somehow cast a negative moral light on workers for using this leverage when every other stakeholder, managment, stockholders, board members, government agencies, voters all use their leverage to change the ecosystem. Entitlement? You are entitled to what you can g…

This shows how deeply ingrained right-wing ideology has become in America. Outside America it is obvious that billionaires, oligarchs and CEOs wield power in their own self-interest, and that workers benefit from collective action in their own self-interest. But inside America the billionaires, oligarchs and CEOs are mythologized as benevolent actors, and workers should be thankful for the gifts graciously bestowed u…

Reminds me of when American Airlines gave their workers a raise[1] resulting in financial analysts saying things like:

> “This is frustrating. Labor is being paid first again,” wrote Citi analyst Kevin Crissey in a widely circulated note. “Shareholders get leftovers.”

Pretty amazing that someone could write this without a hint of irony.

[1] https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/4/29/15471634/american-ai...

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