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Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#241

Post by pertymcpert »

chii wrote: post #232
vorpalhex wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're shipping buggy and insecure software, you will soon get a whole lot of free time on your hands.

That's why i think devops has some good ideas - you are responsible for the shit you ship. Also developer on calls - if you ship shit that goes down or causes errors, you get woken up in the middle of the night or during your vacation.

I disagree about on call developers. No one should have to be half at work on their time off. Fix the business model so that becomes unnecessary.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#242

Post by pertymcpert »

namdnay wrote: post #12
nowherebeen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's a form of doublespeak?

I think doublespeak is when the two meanings are opposite, no? This sounds more like your standard corporate euphemism

You’re thinking of Doublethink from 1984.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#243

Post by steve_adams_86 »

nowherebeen wrote: post #233
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s easy for him to convince himself of this because he started Facebook from nothing. I’m not saying he’s right, but he can point to that and say “why can’t anyone else do that?” It’s something I’ve witnessed a lot of successful people doing.

He didn’t really start Facebook from nothing though. Peter Theil pumped half a million in it right from the start and it always had VC backing to the tune of hundreds of millions. Having a rich backer fund your startup is far from starting at nothing.

I agree. I should have chosen words more carefully. I think essentially all success on a large scale occurs due to chance, incredible fortune, and various forms of charity or luck. Whether that be cash injection in a startup or having loyalty from a great team who empowers you to accomplish your goals. No one does any of this alone.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#244

Post by chii »

pertymcpert wrote: post #241
chii wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why i think devops has some good ideas - you are responsible for the shit you ship. Also developer on calls - if you ship shit that goes down or causes errors, you get woken up in the middle of the night or during your vacation.

I disagree about on call developers. No one should have to be half at work on their time off. Fix the business model so that becomes unnecessary.

there is no model where that becomes unnecessary. If someone who did not create the product is on call, they become the poor sod stuck solving a problem of not their own making.

> half at work on their time off

i mean not constantly. Also if you're on call, you're always paid for doing so regardless of what happens. This talk isn't about compensation, but about the model of work.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#245

Post by Barrin92 »

greggman3 wrote: post #235
Barrin92 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

secretely retracting messages he sent to others from their inboxes, a feature exlcusively made available to him[1], with a straight face telling people that discourse on his website does not have influence on elections, tying his donations to having his name put on a hospital which is petty as hell, I mean pick your poison [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/6/17203114/facebook-mark-zuc...

> tying his donations to having his name put on a hospital Isn't that normal? There's a reason so many buildings have a person's name on them. Carnegie Hall, Enoch Pratt Free Library, Guggenheim Museum, The Getty, The DeYoung, Coit Tower, ... AFAIK Half the buildings on any college campus are named after the donor that paid for it. You want hospitals, how about the Huntington Hospital, Sutter Hospital, UCSF Benioff C…

Yes it is normal, for people with the net worth of Zuckerberg most of which are full of themselves. Doesn't really detract from my point as much, it just means he's not the only guy in the club, and it's a boys club btw, I don't see McKenzie Bezos putting her name on everything.

Maybe you and I and countless of other people chip in some money at the end of the year. (in fact in proportion to our income we donate more), and I don't see ordinary people forming a union to name a hospital, we just click the donate button and go on with our lives. Like Chuck Feeney btw, to name one very wealthy person that is way less vain.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#246

Post by vorpalhex »

pertymcpert wrote: post #241
chii wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why i think devops has some good ideas - you are responsible for the shit you ship. Also developer on calls - if you ship shit that goes down or causes errors, you get woken up in the middle of the night or during your vacation.

I disagree about on call developers. No one should have to be half at work on their time off. Fix the business model so that becomes unnecessary.

I was part of a group that inherited a really buggy service platform, maybe a dozen services, 3 generations of most services still around, no logging, nothing. The previous team had kept some foreign engineers on-call and never taken shifts - and there were daily pages, absurd processes to "fix" things, etc.

In about two weeks of putting engineers on call for their own services, most of the major problems were fixed.

It's easy to write buggy software when you aren't the one who gets called at 2am to fix it. Once you start being responsible for your software, the urge to take shortcuts really evaporates. On the other hand, a team that is not responsible for their output will always cut corners - it's just the way it goes.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#247

Post by namdnay »

pertymcpert wrote: post #242
namdnay wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think doublespeak is when the two meanings are opposite, no? This sounds more like your standard corporate euphemism

You’re thinking of Doublethink from 1984.

Ahhhh that's it, thanks!

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#248

Post by drdeadringer »

wpietri wrote: post #52
absolutelyrad wrote: post #5

"Chief of Advertising Integrity" does anyone take that title seriously? Forget advertising, Facebook and it's CEO himself has no integrity.

I can't find it now, but I remember a story from somebody in the Lean Manufacturing world about a place that was having safety problems, so they appointed somebody Safety Director. This signaled to everybody that safety was that one guy's problem, not theirs. Accidents went up further and stayed up until they got rid of the Safety Directory position and made everybody responsible for safety. That resonated for me bec…

> That resonated for me because I've seen that happen in software, that classic pattern where cowboy coders ship garbage to QA. The lowest bug rates I've seen are where everybody cares about quality.

On the flip side, I get nervous when I hear something akin to "We don't have QA here", sometimes as a matter of pride. Think of those times when you've heard someone snear at "Safety First", but for QA or testing.

Perhaps one ideal would be to promote a "everyone cares about quality" environment whilst still having some people focused specifically on QA.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#249

Post by pertymcpert »

chii wrote: post #244
pertymcpert wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about on call developers. No one should have to be half at work on their time off. Fix the business model so that becomes unnecessary.

there is no model where that becomes unnecessary. If someone who did not create the product is on call, they become the poor sod stuck solving a problem of not their own making. > half at work on their time off i mean not constantly. Also if you're on call, you're always paid for doing so regardless of what happens. This talk isn't about compensation, but about the model of work.

There is. You split the team or hire additional engineers in other time zones, such that no one is relied upon to work on their time off. There should always be someone working at all times around the globe, available to support.

Re: Facebook's advertising integrity chief leaves company

#250

Post by pertymcpert »

vorpalhex wrote: post #246
pertymcpert wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about on call developers. No one should have to be half at work on their time off. Fix the business model so that becomes unnecessary.

I was part of a group that inherited a really buggy service platform, maybe a dozen services, 3 generations of most services still around, no logging, nothing. The previous team had kept some foreign engineers on-call and never taken shifts - and there were daily pages, absurd processes to "fix" things, etc. In about two weeks of putting engineers on call for their own services, most of the major problems were fixed.…

There's an easier way to do that. You give them poor performance reviews or fire them if they don't improve.
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