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Do not compare EU salaries with the US

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Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#61

Post by africanboy »

biggermike wrote: post #40
africanboy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet she thinks that in the USA, a good student can't go to college without money No, she actually thinks that an average (or below average, or without some exceptional physical skill etc. etc.) student can't go to college without money. That's a non issue here in Europe (generally). > Also, the idea that poor people with cancer in the US are left to die You still have to pay for it. Without premium insurance premiu…

> You still have to pay for it. You don't, actually. Medicaid is a de-facto single payer system (with the caveat that it's funded by both federal and state governments).

You can take for granted two things in life:

- death

- downvotes from Americans who do can't tolerate critics

Medicaid is not "free" there are requirements, but assuming you qualify, there are hidden costs. Like for example.

> The DRA created a five-year "look-back period." That means that any transfers without fair market value (gifts of any kind) made by the Medicaid applicant during the preceding five years are penalizable. The penalty is determined by dividing the average monthly cost of nursing home care in the area or State into the amount of assets gifted. Therefore, if a person gifted $60,000 and the average monthly cost of a nursing home was $6,000, one would divide $6000 into $60,000 and come up with 10. 10 represents the number of months the applicant would not be eligible for medicaid.

Maybe it's me as Italian that am a simpleton, but for me that's a cost.

If someone parents here get treated in a hospital, they are treated freely.

If after 4 years they want to gift their children with a few thousand euros to pay, for example, for their marriage, they don't have to worry about it.

Worrying has a cost.

The incentive of the Medicaid system is to lie about the real entity of the assets one possess.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#62

Post by africanboy »

JPKab wrote: post #53
africanboy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet she thinks that in the USA, a good student can't go to college without money No, she actually thinks that an average (or below average, or without some exceptional physical skill etc. etc.) student can't go to college without money. That's a non issue here in Europe (generally). > Also, the idea that poor people with cancer in the US are left to die You still have to pay for it. Without premium insurance premiu…

if you are below a certain income in the United States you don't have to pay for your health care. End of story. Most Europeans don't know anything about the US other than Michael Moore documentaries and reports from very biased journalists. I think the US medical system is incredibly flawed and has horrific inefficiencies and other things that make me hate it, but I live here and I actually know a lot about it as op…

> if you are below a certain income in the United States you don't have to pay for your health care. End of story.

That's the problem.

End of story.

> Most Europeans don't know anything about the US other than Michael Moore

Most Americans assume they know what European know, based on stereotypes 100 years old.

And have never been here.

But I've lived in the US, for example.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#63

Post by jandrewrogers »

kamyarg wrote: post #7
AntiImperialis4 wrote: post #2

DO compare it and see how much one can end up saving in a given time in the US, even after paying for healthcare, education etc.

Per the author's twit, without the higher taxes etc. they would not have been able to afford becoming a software engineer without this welfare setup. Also, yes you save much more, but when your mother has cancer and dad is disabled(As the author explains), realistically much more than what you save ends up being spent to take care of them and paying their medical bills.

As someone who spent the first half of their life in poverty, this is not an accurate characterization of that situation in the US. Becoming a software engineer in the US is available to just about anyone, basically the cost of a cheap computer that sometimes literally rounds to "free" and some time. That is how I became a software engineer while working long hours at low-skill jobs. I eventually worked at FAANG and earned (much more than) $250k. This isn't a unique story; one of the under-rated aspects of living in the US is that this is realistically possible and many people do it. Low salaries for engineers don't help anyone except the company owners.

Poor people generally don't pay for healthcare in the US for the most part. I have multiple family members that received (literally) state-of-the-art cancer treatment at top hospitals at no cost to themselves. The hospitals don't even try to collect anything. That's pretty normal in the US. Having to pay expensive medical bills is something that happens to the middle class, not the poor.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#64

Post by kamyarg »

marcinzm wrote: post #38
kamyarg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the author's twit, without the higher taxes etc. they would not have been able to afford becoming a software engineer without this welfare setup. Also, yes you save much more, but when your mother has cancer and dad is disabled(As the author explains), realistically much more than what you save ends up being spent to take care of them and paying their medical bills.

They'd realistically have Medicaid in the US which doesn't have high out of pocket costs. Probably social security payments for disability and various other government programs. Some programs would even pay the mother (or a relative) to stay home and help their disabled spouse. Community college is fairly inexpensive in the US so there's that as well.

I know someone that immigrated to EU from middle east, after ~1 year developed a severe life threatening stomach/liver illness(can not recall the details), went through multiple operations, after 1.5-2 years away from work but getting most of his salary due to welfare got better and got back to work. He is very young and I suspect you could have anything close to this in US. Let alone immigrants, even citizens can not afford to do this.

I have never lived in the US and this all from online media, reading and talking to various ex/current US citizens/residents colleagues, so I might be wrong still.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#65

Post by jandrewrogers »

cnorthwood wrote: post #52
marcinzm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that FAANG silicon valley paid something like $400-500k/year for those with 10 years experience pre-COVID. With top notch health insurance and other benefits (except vacation). Comes out to $250+k take home income after taxes (without deductions, no spouse, etc.). At that amount other considerations essentially no longer matter.

Is that cash, or is a significant amount of that stocks/shares or other non-cash reimbursement (which I assume is subject to tax at the point it's realised)?

FAANG stock is essentially cash equivalent because it is highly liquid. However, some companies also pay straight cash at those levels (or higher).

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#66

Post by marcinzm »

cnorthwood wrote: post #52
marcinzm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that FAANG silicon valley paid something like $400-500k/year for those with 10 years experience pre-COVID. With top notch health insurance and other benefits (except vacation). Comes out to $250+k take home income after taxes (without deductions, no spouse, etc.). At that amount other considerations essentially no longer matter.

Is that cash, or is a significant amount of that stocks/shares or other non-cash reimbursement (which I assume is subject to tax at the point it's realised)?

It's generally 50% RSUs which are stock but equivalent to cash for all intents and purposes. Only difference is that you need to stay at least a year to get paid. The post-tax money I mentioned is with everything getting taxed as income.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#67

Post by arctangos »

AntiImperialis4 wrote: post #2

DO compare it and see how much one can end up saving in a given time in the US, even after paying for healthcare, education etc.

I hope that advocates of purchasing power parity comparisons are prepared to factor in implicitly consumed but not easily purchasable goods. Otherwise, they would miss out on many of the things that truly matter in life.

For example, in the EU, my middle class neighbors’ children safely bike and ride the train to and from their excellent publicly funded schools, after school activities, and friends’ houses requiring little to no adult supervision while in transit.* What do private schooling, chauffeurs, and security personnel cost in the US, anyway?

*Of course, COVID does interfere somewhat with this, but this is true worldwide.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#68

Post by kamyarg »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #63
kamyarg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the author's twit, without the higher taxes etc. they would not have been able to afford becoming a software engineer without this welfare setup. Also, yes you save much more, but when your mother has cancer and dad is disabled(As the author explains), realistically much more than what you save ends up being spent to take care of them and paying their medical bills.

As someone who spent the first half of their life in poverty, this is not an accurate characterization of that situation in the US. Becoming a software engineer in the US is available to just about anyone, basically the cost of a cheap computer that sometimes literally rounds to "free" and some time. That is how I became a software engineer while working long hours at low-skill jobs. I eventually worked at FAANG and…

Thanks for sharing this. She also mentions not affording university but that is besides the point.

I think there are two issue, Low gross salaries in EU(which I agree with you), and high taxes in the EU(Which the twitt justifies and I agree).

For the first issue, I am all for better and more fair wages in EU, but that is a completely different topic with different dynamics.

Just one question as I am genuinely curious, when poor people get hospitalized or can not work and have to rest at home, do they receive any payment due to their job? Do they get terminated? Do they receive a social payment of sorts? Even if they don't pay the medical bills, can they afford to get by without family/community support?

For more context see my other reply about a friend having stomach issues.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#69

Post by marcinzm »

kamyarg wrote: post #64
marcinzm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd realistically have Medicaid in the US which doesn't have high out of pocket costs. Probably social security payments for disability and various other government programs. Some programs would even pay the mother (or a relative) to stay home and help their disabled spouse. Community college is fairly inexpensive in the US so there's that as well.

I know someone that immigrated to EU from middle east, after ~1 year developed a severe life threatening stomach/liver illness(can not recall the details), went through multiple operations, after 1.5-2 years away from work but getting most of his salary due to welfare got better and got back to work. He is very young and I suspect you could have anything close to this in US. Let alone immigrants, even citizens can no…

Like most things, the people who the system works for fine don't complain about it and those it fails for do complain about it.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#70

Post by rayiner »

africanboy wrote: post #61
biggermike wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You still have to pay for it. You don't, actually. Medicaid is a de-facto single payer system (with the caveat that it's funded by both federal and state governments).

You can take for granted two things in life: - death - downvotes from Americans who do can't tolerate critics Medicaid is not "free" there are requirements, but assuming you qualify, there are hidden costs. Like for example. > The DRA created a five-year "look-back period." That means that any transfers without fair market value (gifts of any kind) made by the Medicaid applicant during the preceding five years are pe…

> Medicaid is not "free" there are requirements, but assuming you qualify, there are hidden costs.

There are low, published co-pays, similar to Italy.

The example you're quoting is for Medicaid nursing home care, a very expensive program with a distinct set of requirements: https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/medicaid-look-bac...

> When a senior is applying for long-term care Medicaid, whether that is for services in one’s home, an assisted living residence, or a nursing home, there is an asset (resource) limit. In order to be eligible for Medicaid, one cannot have assets greater than the limit. Medicaid’s look-back period is meant to prevent Medicaid applicants from giving away assets or selling them under fair market value in an attempt to meet Medicaid’s asset limit.

Italy does not have universal long-term care for the elderly: http://www.ancien-longtermcare.eu/sites/default/files/ENEPRI.... Like the U.S., it has some support for lower-income people who need long-term care.

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