My Experience at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My Experience at Apple

#591

Post by ffhhj » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:02 AM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #258

throwaway29303 wrote: post #193

This is awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. However, If Apple refuse to take actions, I will interview with major media outlets describing the experience in more details and I will release a list of all individuals involved from senior management to the HR director and all the evidence as public record. You're wasting your time if you think they're going to do anything with this kind of approach. Get a lawyer firs…

In NY (and, I think, California), that's illegal. I found this out, because at the company at which I worked, managers kept making verbal commitments, then gaslighting me about them. I could never get them to commit in writing, and my own "reflection" emails (the standard advice about this) were worthless. I considered walking around with a little digital recorder in my pocket. But many states have explicit laws agai…

> But many states have explicit laws against surreptitious audio recording. I suspect that comes from politicians being caught with wires (yeah, I'm a cynic).

Voices can be easily faked, that's the reason. Same will happen to video as deepfake technologies keep improving.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#592

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:03 AM UTC

kablow wrote: post #569

GloriousKoji wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also worked for Apple and I had a very similar experience. Management was brutal and abusive from my immediate manager to all the way up to and including the VP level. For example even though vacation hours were accrued I never got to use them unless I wanted to endure the verbal backlash of abandoning the team and my responsibilities. When the holidays came around the director would email everyone reminding us the…

Wow reading all these stories about Apple really is eye-opening, as I've only usually heard these types of things about Amazon before. I say that because I work for Amazon, and my work environment is pretty bad by my standards (my team cuts a lot of corners, we are given unrealistic deadlines by upper management, our on-call is paged at least 10 times a week, we have a huge backlog of tickets and bugs that we can nev…

[deleted]

Re: My Experience at Apple

#593

Post by CyberRabbi » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:03 AM UTC

neycoda wrote: post #568

wpietri wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that abusive behavior is an optimal strategy if you're working for abusive people. Organizations tend to be set up such that people like the people in power succeed. Jobs was a notorious jerk [1] [2] [3], so it's not surprising that similar behavior is what gets promoted. [1] https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atar... [2] https://www.yahoo.com/news/memoir-steve-jobs-apos-daughter-1... […

Steve Jobs died from being a jerk, to himself, because he refused to take his doctor's advice about his diet and pancreatic cancer. A reality distortion field only works so long.

What was his diet?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#594

Post by hsuduebc2 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:04 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #472

908B64B197 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Accenture Large consulting firms seems to operate this way, being basically a pyramid with endless layers of non-programming "Enterprise Architect Solution Expert". I've had folks tell me explicitly when joining these firms post-grad that their goal was not to code in two years.

Any company that has to change its name to avoid bad publicity is not worth working for.

Can you give us additional info please?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#595

Post by wesleywt » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

GeorgeTirebiter wrote: post #200

rmk wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The primary lesson I learnt is that it doesn't matter if you work hard. Nobody notices, and even if they do you will likely not get anything out of it. Do your job, but don't kill yourself over it. Work-life balance is king. This has been my experience as well. Nowadays I work hard only while most of the following are true: - I'm making top dollar (good salary + equity value is high) - Work is interesting (somethin…

Wow, Great List! The last one (juniors calling the shots) really hit home; when I worked in , I was ultimately standing on the shoulder of midgets. The worse part? As a CS grad, I knew how to do better, but: nobody with the power to change things understood how or why what I was suggesting was better(!). I've long thought about this afterward, and concluded it's that 'my world' (which includes a lot of experience, an…

Just to add to the list. Keep a paper trail of all communications between you and your line management or any other colleague. Especially abusive communications. It will look really bad when you read these out aloud at a HR meeting for them.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#596

Post by ex_Apple_throw » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:07 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #416

heimatau wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's their social? would be a good follow-up too. I'm not sure you understand that Apple could bury this person's career and numerous companies only need one phone call to let this person go. Please understand that you're creating an attack vector that is too great for this person to reveal.

The picture the author included has enough information for an outsider to piece together their organization. The fact that it includes a meeting time and room would be enough for Apple to figure out who it was, just by looking at who booked it. Unfortunately, they probably are already in a position where Apple knows exactly who they are, and perhaps their colleagues do too.

I know from my own personal experience that Apple doesn't care. This person could go right back to a different department and get a new contract if the opportunity exists.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#597

Post by hsuduebc2 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:12 AM UTC

Hope they got fired. I' sorry, this is just terrible. Wish you all the best.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#598

Post by billy_beef » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:12 AM UTC

refulgentis wrote: post #502

adultSwim wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union, now!

I don't see how this would change anything - its a function of social dynamics, not how afraid managers are of their reports

Unions come with consistent skills trainings, legal counsel, and representatives to intercede when management is treating employees poorly. This seems like a very helpful stable of support to be able to call on in situation like this one.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#599

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:13 AM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #478

Apocryphon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a tendency to give Apple a pass among the big companies. They sell actual products instead of you, the user('s data). Their logistical chain does not rely upon a system of (often fellow American) warehouse workers who are pushed to the breaking point. [The developing world workforce that actually assembles their products- that's another story, but bogus hoaxes like Mike Daisey's only add confusion and make t…

They're also hip, maintain some level of underdog cachet, and folks like their products. People wish they could be that, and tend to give a pass to the things they idolize. You might also imagine that inside a company made of money, there's no need for anyone to be a jerk.

[deleted]

Re: My Experience at Apple

#600

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:14 AM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #493

GloriousKoji wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also worked for Apple and I had a very similar experience. Management was brutal and abusive from my immediate manager to all the way up to and including the VP level. For example even though vacation hours were accrued I never got to use them unless I wanted to endure the verbal backlash of abandoning the team and my responsibilities. When the holidays came around the director would email everyone reminding us the…

> everyone was merged into another team working on something similar with new management. Meet the new boss same as the old boss I worked for Apple before Jobs died. He'd frequently have several teams working on the exact same thing, in secret, and then pick the team that met his goals the best. Sometimes the "losers" would be merged into the "winning" team, but never treated well by the winners.

The unfortunate thing is that if not for the social/political side, this would be a good approach. I would be happy to be on one of many teams doing parallel implementations if at the end one codebase won but no people lost.