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My Experience at Apple

ex-apple-engineer.medium.com

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Re: My Experience at Apple

#261

Post by sdoering »

specialist wrote: post #114
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #80

For anyone experiencing workplace harassment, this article is a great example of what not to do. Instead, document everything happening to you with evidence, speak with HR about incidents as they arise, and if they don't take action, seek legal counsel. Doing anything else will paint you in a bad light.

IDK. I've tried it every which way. None have worked out well for me. Me now thinks only winning move is to suck it up while finding a new gig. For H1B prisoners like this OP, well, it's tough to win a rigged game. The core problem, IMHO, is not having a baseline model for what good management looks like. In my 30s, I finally stumbled into a high mutual trust situation. It was heaven. We got so much done, had so much…

I hear you. I stumbled into a situation of high mutual trust as well. And I saw it go down the drain over few years.

One is burned after experiencing what work could be like. But what to do - I have so no idea.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#262

Post by xenihn »

jariel wrote: post #187
bredren wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is what you took from my post, you’re mistaken. People should not be emotionally abusive. But they are. They attain positions of power. Through reflection you may come to realize they are among people you consider friends or family. You can’t “fix” them, but you can learn how to handle or avoid them. Sometimes, if a person looks inward and into their past they will find a pattern of people who have taken adva…

Well you did specifically say 'assert their own boundaries'. That's victim blaming to the extent there is nothing someone can do to assert themselves other than basically leaving.

The poster you're responding to is dispensing advice on how to handle and escape from predators. Accusing them of victim shaming is wrong, and you're just siding supporting the predators by doing so. It's good advice.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#264

Post by uselessemployee »

I believe this particular team was a "Forgotten" team as in the Forgotten Employee (https://sites.google.com/site/forgottenemployee/), or "bullshit jobs team".

I probably will never truly understand the sufferings and misery of the author. However, the author perhaps was expecting the environment to be challenging in a positive way, with interesting work and motivated colleagues. Unfortunately for the author, the team was complete opposite of it. Recognizing such environments is also a valuable office skill, because then you can decide for yourself if you would like to basically do nothing alongside the team or leave for greener pastures. Being new to the team and trying to make a positive change immediately will only create resistance from the peers and may lead to abuse described in the article.

Paradoxically, doing nothing and being conformant with the team nature would have led to positive reviews and much, much less overall misery.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#265

Post by throwaway8193 »

arcatech wrote: post #177
lordnacho wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for most people the question is whether there are reasons to think Apple's internal environment fosters this kind of behaviour. You can imagine a company of that size has a huge number of teams, some where everything is just dandy, some with terrible issues like yours and the author's. But is there something corporate-wide about Apple that makes you think what you went through was common, or the opposite (ie…

The internal culture was influenced by Steve Jobs. He was widely known for being an asshole who also happened to be an excellent salesman with a really good design sense. That's Apple.

Exactly--Jobs was a raging asshole, and that became what the managers looked up to as the example of what brings success. During my time there, the assholes were the ones rewarded and promoted, and thus became the promoters, and the people with a shred of decency and empathy who just wanted to be good and do good work were marginalized and not rewarded. It's up and down the chain from VP level down to the first level managers.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#266

Post by Lammy »

I'm very sorry to read about your experience and have seen similar stories play out at other "top" tier companies, including once myself. I thought this paragraph really stood out in your post:

"This is while the rest of the team were taking weeks and months to complete a task that takes an hour, were on vacation or just out of office or out of touch. The time they were out of office was more than 2 months in one year!"

Sounds like you were perceived as a threat to the career stability of people who have been there a long time, have figured out how to coast, and don't want a spotlight shone on their general area. This is not intended to be a justification of any part of what you experienced, but this does sound like it wasn't all personal.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#267

Post by mistrial9 »

I worked at Apple Computer long ago and overall, was abused for labor, including no December vacation, expected overtime, and getting me to design the project t-shirt and then not letting me have two of them for my trouble (insult). I was young and dealt with it. I have moved on. I am not surprised by this article.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#268

Post by xyst »

stuff like this needs to be taken to court - air out the laundry of the employer and the public will truly see the evil side of some of the greediest corporations.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#269

Post by kmonsen »

meekrohprocess wrote: post #39
reactordev wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, you can fill in the blank with any FAANG company with this story. I’ve heard it a thousand times. Toxic management. Sorry you went through that, sorry that was your first taste of engineering out of college. Glad you stuck with it. It’s a tough spot to be. Do you roll over and do the job your being yelled at to do even though you know any concessions are BS? Or like the senior folks, do you walk? It’s a really…

I don't think so. I've worked at other FAANG companies which had these sorts of posts written about them, and I've witnessed plenty of situations that I would call "abusive". But what I read in this article was beyond the pale. I never felt like anybody adjacent to any of my roles might have cause to fear for their physical safety. Reviews were used as political tools and occasional sources of psychological abuse, su…

This is fairly obviously true, FAANG's are large companies so lots of strange things happen even if they on average are great. I worked at Google for 10 years, and had 10 great years there with very little negative to say. That was true for almost anyone I knew. But there was a mailing list "yes at Google" for these kind of stories so other can see that it does happen even if most of us thought it was great. Most of the targets in the unfortunate stories were woman or minorities.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#270

Post by baby »

polote wrote: post #17

Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that. I'm not sure though, creating a post like that is the best thing. I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer), and if you are able to show a f…

I agree and disagree. I agree that bad stuff can happen wherever. But some companies do set incentives that lead to bad culture.
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