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The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

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Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#61

Post by dredmorbius »

mannykannot wrote: post #45
throw0101a wrote: post #33

Stories like this, about how random, independent events tie together to create our sense of 'progress', always remind me of James Burke's Connections : * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series) See for example how the Jacquard loom (i.e., punchcard 'programming') came about in episode four, "Faith in Numbers": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itd-4lMoXgI The search for artificial quinine to treat malar…

Such stories are entertaining, but there is usually no analysis of whether the outcome would have been materially different had the specific chain of circumstances not played out in the particular way they did... Hence the occurrence of weasel words like 'helped' in most such narratives (and my use of 'usually', 'materially' and 'most' here!)

Burkes thesis isn't the causality so much as relations, almost always crossing what we now see as typical boundaries; scientific or engineering disciplines, professions, regions, cultures. One thing influences numerous others.

He's critiquing and offering an alternative to strict linear domain-respecting narratives. And "looking back to peer forward": by offerring an interdisciplinary narrative of the past, he proposes and suggests the same approach for describing, or more importantly, creating, the future.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#62

Post by [deleted] »

sradman wrote: post #25
samb1729 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Cape Bojador made it impassible for so long? I know essentially nothing about navigation or ships in general besides that they don't travel over land particularly well[0], so if you know of an easy to digest resource I'd really appreciate it. [0]: except near Constantinople, obviously

The book Atlantic is where I came across it. Sand shoals force ships into the currents of the North Atlantic Gyre which the Portuguese mastered before tackling the Cape Bojador problem; see Volta do Mar [1] which has a great diagram. The problem was solved with math. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volta_do_mar

[deleted]

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#63

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

sradman wrote: post #58
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your source is not a credible one. It is merely speculative armchair history along the lines of a Gavin Menzies or Graham Hancock.

The Histories [1] by Herodotus is more than mere speculation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histories_(Herodotus)

While Herodotus may serve as a motivation for someone to make such a claim, the OP did not link to either Herodotus or to a reputable scholarly commentary on Herodotus. He linked to a pop-sci website with an obsession with fringe history – just look at some of the other wacky things on La Brujula Verde.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#64

Post by sradman »

jankotek wrote: post #59
sradman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting: > As it can be appreciated, that voyage followed the opposite direction to those that the Portuguese would do centuries later: instead of sail south the Atlantic Ocean and round the Cape of Good Hope to the east, they had to sail from Egypt in summer, cross the Red Sea (the Arabian Gulf which Herodotus says) taking advantage of the north wind and leaving behind the Horn of Africa. So it is possible/likel…

Ships were often carried across land, for example over Isthmus of Corinth. Ship wood was also expensive, maybe they took and reused some parts...

Right, assuming shipworms could survive the extended period on land.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#65

Post by sradman »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #63
sradman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Histories [1] by Herodotus is more than mere speculation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histories_(Herodotus)

While Herodotus may serve as a motivation for someone to make such a claim, the OP did not link to either Herodotus or to a reputable scholarly commentary on Herodotus. He linked to a pop-sci website with an obsession with fringe history – just look at some of the other wacky things on La Brujula Verde.

I read the article and it is sound. I know nothing about the nature of the other articles this website publishes. This is nothing like Graham Hancock pseudo-science.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#66

Post by EmilioMartinez »

sradman wrote: post #7

> References in Greek texts from the 4th century BC are IMO suggestive of early voyages to the coast of West Africa, the nearest navigable mangrove forests (unless shipworm managed to somehow get carried across the Sinai isthmus) Simon Winchester discusses how Cape Bojador [1] was impassible until 1443 (in his book Atlantic [2]) so it is unlikely that early voyages reached any further south along the coast of West Af…

>Worse, the ferrous rocks make compass needles whirl erratically

ok, now that's a bit over the top, but that cape being impassible helps make sense of world history a bit

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#67

Post by throw0101a »

Someone wrote: post #52
dghughes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wine press using a screw instead of a heavy weight. The press was used to for printing press with movable type. Image how tedious it would be if printing presses needed heavy stones instead of a screw. Books pretty much just the bible at this point were cheaper due to mass production. People wanted them in their own language. Reading more meant as people got older they couldn't see the small words. Glasses were i…

I don’t see how the printing press could have triggered the invention of eye glasses, eye glasses being over a century older (ignoring any Chinese printing press, as I don’t see how Chinese books triggered Italians to invent reading glasses) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasses#Invention : “The first eyeglasses were made in Northern Italy, most likely in Pisa, by about 1290 […] By 1301, there were guild regulations…

Eye glasses were necessary, but not sufficient, for the invention of the telescope (and microscope).

It's about the knowledge to refocus light, which is (generally) done in an one-way fashion for spectacles, and in a two-way fashion for 'scopes.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#69

Post by ncmncm »

jankotek wrote: post #48
sradman wrote: post #7

> References in Greek texts from the 4th century BC are IMO suggestive of early voyages to the coast of West Africa, the nearest navigable mangrove forests (unless shipworm managed to somehow get carried across the Sinai isthmus) Simon Winchester discusses how Cape Bojador [1] was impassible until 1443 (in his book Atlantic [2]) so it is unlikely that early voyages reached any further south along the coast of West Af…

Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa, Greeks knew about that. https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2018/11/the-egyptian-phoen...

Their report that the sun was to their right as they rounded the Cape helped cement skepticism of the achievement.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#70

Post by ncmncm »

sradman wrote: post #65
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Herodotus may serve as a motivation for someone to make such a claim, the OP did not link to either Herodotus or to a reputable scholarly commentary on Herodotus. He linked to a pop-sci website with an obsession with fringe history – just look at some of the other wacky things on La Brujula Verde.

I read the article and it is sound. I know nothing about the nature of the other articles this website publishes. This is nothing like Graham Hancock pseudo-science.

Graham Hancock has never pretended to be a scientist, so what he writes is, by definition, not pseudoscience. "I don't like it" also does not define pseudoscience, as much as some wish otherwise.

Much of it is pure speculation, and rot, but his direct observations -- he actually does go places, and takes copious, excellent photographs (his wife is a pro) -- have proven reliable; much more so than his armchair critics. He is scrupulously careful to distinguish observation from speculation, something many of his critics could learn from.

Ignore both the speculation and the armchair critics, and you may learn, too.

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