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The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

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Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#51
post #7

> References in Greek texts from the 4th century BC are IMO suggestive of early voyages to the coast of West Africa, the nearest navigable mangrove forests (unless shipworm managed to somehow get carried across the Sinai isthmus) Simon Winchester discusses how Cape Bojador [1] was impassible until 1443 (in his book Atlantic [2]) so it is unlikely that early voyages reached any further south along the coast of West Af…

Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa, Greeks knew about that. https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2018/11/the-egyptian-phoen...

Interesting:

> As it can be appreciated, that voyage followed the opposite direction to those that the Portuguese would do centuries later: instead of sail south the Atlantic Ocean and round the Cape of Good Hope to the east, they had to sail from Egypt in summer, cross the Red Sea (the Arabian Gulf which Herodotus says) taking advantage of the north wind and leaving behind the Horn of Africa.

So it is possible/likely that the Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa in a clockwise direction while the Portuguese solved the harder problem of circumnavigating Africa counter-clockwise.

Back to the original question: how did shipworms get to ancient Greece? Both narratives support the idea that shipworms were most likely carried from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea. The question is how early the Canal of the Pharaohs was operational. The shipworms may actual help set this date.

I wonder if a Phoenician equivalent of the Roman/Byzantine Periplus of the Erythraean Sea existed in Carthage and was lost after the Third Punic War.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#52

Stories like this, about how random, independent events tie together to create our sense of 'progress', always remind me of James Burke's Connections : * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series) See for example how the Jacquard loom (i.e., punchcard 'programming') came about in episode four, "Faith in Numbers": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itd-4lMoXgI The search for artificial quinine to treat malar…

The wine press using a screw instead of a heavy weight. The press was used to for printing press with movable type. Image how tedious it would be if printing presses needed heavy stones instead of a screw. Books pretty much just the bible at this point were cheaper due to mass production. People wanted them in their own language. Reading more meant as people got older they couldn't see the small words. Glasses were i…

I don’t see how the printing press could have triggered the invention of eye glasses, eye glasses being over a century older (ignoring any Chinese printing press, as I don’t see how Chinese books triggered Italians to invent reading glasses)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasses#Invention: “The first eyeglasses were made in Northern Italy, most likely in Pisa, by about 1290 […] By 1301, there were guild regulations in Venice governing the sale of eyeglasses”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing_press: “In Germany, around 1440, goldsmith Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescope#History: “The earliest existing record of a telescope was a 1608 patent submitted to the government in the Netherlands”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_microscope#History: “Compound microscopes first appeared in Europe around 1620 including one demonstrated by Cornelis Drebbel in London (around 1621) and one exhibited in Rome in 1624”

On telescopes and microscopes, you probably have the order right, but I would call it a close tie.

Also, if eye glasses triggered the invention of the telescope, why did that take over three centuries?

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#53

Stories like this, about how random, independent events tie together to create our sense of 'progress', always remind me of James Burke's Connections : * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series) See for example how the Jacquard loom (i.e., punchcard 'programming') came about in episode four, "Faith in Numbers": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itd-4lMoXgI The search for artificial quinine to treat malar…

Such stories are entertaining, but there is usually no analysis of whether the outcome would have been materially different had the specific chain of circumstances not played out in the particular way they did... Hence the occurrence of weasel words like 'helped' in most such narratives (and my use of 'usually', 'materially' and 'most' here!)

I don't think that is the point though. Perhaps trying to show historic causality is a lost cause anyway, so instead showing cross-discipline progress at least portrays the co-dependent nature of history, progress, etc.

A comment James Burke makes is that the non-interdisciplinary approach has been the norm for too long (and I think its shortcomings and flaws are worse).

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#54
post #7

> References in Greek texts from the 4th century BC are IMO suggestive of early voyages to the coast of West Africa, the nearest navigable mangrove forests (unless shipworm managed to somehow get carried across the Sinai isthmus) Simon Winchester discusses how Cape Bojador [1] was impassible until 1443 (in his book Atlantic [2]) so it is unlikely that early voyages reached any further south along the coast of West Af…

Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa, Greeks knew about that. https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2018/11/the-egyptian-phoen...

Your source is not a credible one. It is merely speculative armchair history along the lines of a Gavin Menzies or Graham Hancock.

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#55

Stories like this, about how random, independent events tie together to create our sense of 'progress', always remind me of James Burke's Connections : * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series) See for example how the Jacquard loom (i.e., punchcard 'programming') came about in episode four, "Faith in Numbers": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itd-4lMoXgI The search for artificial quinine to treat malar…

Either Connections or Cosmos even specifically explored Newcomen's engine and the pumping out of mines. (I don't recall if the need for copper-clad ships preceded it though.)

Edit: Yes, "Connections", episode 6, "Thunder In The Skies", about 22 minutes in: https://archive.org/details/james-burke-connections_s01e06

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa, Greeks knew about that. https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2018/11/the-egyptian-phoen...

Your source is not a credible one. It is merely speculative armchair history along the lines of a Gavin Menzies or Graham Hancock.

It quotes Herodotus, this is first link from google, wiki has some pages as well. I am not an historian, but it seems credible. Some details are matching.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho_II

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa, Greeks knew about that. https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2018/11/the-egyptian-phoen...

Your source is not a credible one. It is merely speculative armchair history along the lines of a Gavin Menzies or Graham Hancock.

The Histories [1] by Herodotus is more than mere speculation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histories_(Herodotus)

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#59
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa, Greeks knew about that. https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2018/11/the-egyptian-phoen...

Interesting: > As it can be appreciated, that voyage followed the opposite direction to those that the Portuguese would do centuries later: instead of sail south the Atlantic Ocean and round the Cape of Good Hope to the east, they had to sail from Egypt in summer, cross the Red Sea (the Arabian Gulf which Herodotus says) taking advantage of the north wind and leaving behind the Horn of Africa. So it is possible/likel…

Ships were often carried across land, for example over Isthmus of Corinth. Ship wood was also expensive, maybe they took and reused some parts...

Re: The naval shipworm helped bring about the Industrial Revolution

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your source is not a credible one. It is merely speculative armchair history along the lines of a Gavin Menzies or Graham Hancock.

It quotes Herodotus, this is first link from google, wiki has some pages as well. I am not an historian, but it seems credible. Some details are matching. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho_II

Specifically [1]:

> At some point between 610 and before 594 BC, Necho reputedly commissioned an expedition of Phoenicians, who it is said in three years sailed from the Red Sea around Africa back to the mouth of the Nile; and would thereby be the first completion of the Cape Route. Herodotus' account was handed down to him by oral tradition, but is seen as potentially credible because he stated with disbelief that the Phoenicians "as they sailed on a westerly course round the southern end of Libya (Africa), they had the sun on their right"—to northward of them (The Histories 4.42).

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho_II#Phoenician_expediti...

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