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Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

ajkesslerblog.com

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Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#151

Post by gaius »

lsc wrote: post #143
gaius wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you not see the externality there? Every "disposable" thing you own started life in a sweatshop and is destined for a landfill. Beyond a certain point, deliberately buying disposable instead of lifetime is just plain irresponsible.

not always. For instance, I buy "disposable" cars. My personal rule is "Don't spend more than a month's salary" which means I buy used.

I am thinking more of cheap consumer electronics, gadgets, etc, even clothes, that only last a year. In the case of the car, you've saved it from being disposed of by someone else, at least for a while.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#153

Post by iskander »

keeptrying wrote: post #146
gdulli wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a good metric. Everyone sleeps in their bed for a lot of hours per week but only a subset of people are sensitive to discomfort or back issues. Why does anyone spend their time coming up with rules for what other people should do in situations that are inherently based on personal values?

If you don't buy a good bed you'll develop back issues. And actually the majority of sedentary workers will have back issues in their lives so it's even more important. This rule works for me and since it's not actually straight forward to figure out, I thought it would help others.

...or you could put a lightly padded mat on the floor. The cost is minimal and it makes my back feel healthier than a bed. As far as I can tell, beds are for comfort not health.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#154

Post by zcid »

danssig wrote: post #60
jerrya wrote: post #25

I tend to buy in two strategies. Either so cheap but functional I don't mind throwing it out later (as eco bad as that might be), or buying good quality wares. I believe that if you can afford good quality wares, that that will both make you happier and leave you with something of substantial resale value. So it may be a better financial strategy. Compare cheap Target cabinet with "Handmade Amish Furniture." That sai…

> and makes no effort to understand that many people cannot afford the quality goods the author can A study done years ago found that the reason poor people stay poor is because they always buy the cheapest option so any money they save up ends up getting used right away to replace something. A never ending cycle of buy cheap/replace broken cheap stuff. >For example, I use to drive sports cars and convertibles, but n…

You can eat your cake and have it, too. I have never spent more than $5000 on a vehicle, and I have only ended up with one lemon. Sometimes I do mechanical work myself, but only because I enjoy it. The rest of the time, I spend the money on a decent mechanic. I still come out ahead cost wise, even if you count my time, trouble, and other intangibles. Even better when you realize that my vehicles suffer virtually no depreciation.

A few hours of research and a $100 inspection prior to purchase will ensure you good odds of buying a reliable vehicle. There are no guarantees, but you can get pretty damn close. If you aren't comfortable with your own judgment, I'm sure you know someone who can advise you.

If you do choose to buy new (or relatively new), an 8-10 year ownership should be your goal. It usually takes that long to get real value for your money.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#155

Post by thewisedude »

What is Frugal is subjective to your income. What makes a person feel good or bad is consequential of his social circle and what his friends/acquaintances have.

For eg: a person making $1 million a year, could buy a $40K car and feel like he was not compromising if all his friends had $30K cars.

However, a guy who is making a similar amount of money might not be too happy if he had to buy a Jag and all his friends had Ferraris.

Ignoring the whole loser argument that the author is making, the one good thing to consider here in the article is, its a good idea to spend proportional to the time you will be spending with the product.

For eg: If you are spending a lot of time on computer, you probably want to get something that is "good" quality and which is good for your eyes and has other benefits.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#156

Post by oewolf »

Jach wrote: post #149
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite; the point was, better stuff will last longer, you never have to replace it. It was a utilitarian argument.

Really? It's a poorly framed one with questionable premises (better quality stuff doesn't always mean the higher priced item), as well as extrapolating his utility function onto that of any reader. For example: > So what if they’re $100. Unless you’re some sort of foot messenger, you only need to buy one pair a year. Or buy $30 shoes that last 2 years and are subjectively just as comfortable. Maybe if you're a foot m…

I think I can do that too. I think he never really implied that the highest price meant better quality. If you try, you can read that from the article, but there is something else you can read from it.

I think what he was saying was more like: if the difference in costs is smaller than the appreciated gaining in life comfort, then do it, spend the money in the expensive one.

The point being, don't be cheap if not being cheap can make your life better.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#157

Post by zcid »

randallsquared wrote: post #116
jerrya wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably right, if you're buying new. I once read about a strategy that made a great deal of sense to me, and that was to buy a 2-3 year old used car from a new car dealer, and sell it after 2-3 years to a private party. There were all sorts of good reasons for that, some of which may no longer be valid, but some of the reasons were that a 2-3 year old car still had a lot of value but was at the end of it's st…

the new car dealer didn't actually know how much the car was worth This statement confuses me. When I talk to car dealers, I notice that they always refer to the NADA guide to determine the worth -- even if you think that the blue book is too high, the sales guy certainly knows exactly what the car is worth, and would rather lose the sale than drop significantly below that price. I conclude that insurance and lot spa…

Dealers make far more profit on used cars than they do new. Because of that, they are often much more willing to negotiate down if it's a tough-to-sell car that has been on their lot for an extended period of time.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#158

Post by omouse »

So we have two sides of capitalism here: consumers who want to buy at a cheaper price, and consumers who want to spend more on quality/brand/etc.

I should change my nickname to "socialist_commentary" or something. Why not argue about why you need all these things and what you're doing by supporting particular companies (some of which may treat their workers like shit)? You're smart enough to talk about the price of the product, but not smart enough to talk about the companies and our consumerist culture in general? I don't buy that.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#159

Post by jbm »

danssig wrote: post #76
jbm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are reading too much into the comment. I can throw out or resell a 400$ laptop with some ease; not so easy with a more expensive model. (My current laptop is a MBP that I got from work) I can't invest too much on a bed as I can't lug it around with my bedouin lifestyle. I can imagine that is the case for quite a few people. It's great that you have stability of location but that isn't true for us all.

>I can throw out or resell a 400$ laptop with some ease; not so easy with a more expensive model. I disagree here. If you pay $400 for it what is your resale value after a year? I wouldn't even pay $50 for a year old $400 laptop since it's nearing end of life. A good MBP, however could be sold three years later for half value or a little less. This is not a bad option for people who want the quality but can't afford…

I should probably bring up a few issues.

> Laptops

It's hard to find a buyer for an expensive laptop. Furthermore, you can find people who buy Pentium 4 laptops for more than 50$ if the battery is working properly. Point being, a one-year old 400$ laptop selling for 200-300$ is not utterly unheard of, especially if you have kept good care of it. I understand that it may be different in other parts of the world. The additional liquidity of a cheaper asset shouldn't be underestimated.

I do think that we "computer people" are far more mobile than someone in more traditional fields; it's part and parcel of online / startup life. I used to shuttle between Montreal, Tokyo and Singapore all the time, and for a time I expected I would wind up in Singapore. Instead, I ended up in Tokyo. Who could have known? Thank God I didn't drop 2gs on a bed. (I wound up buying one on Craigslist for about $450)

I do agree with you for the most part about the disgusting low quality crap that people buy to save a dollar. However, I do feel the need to express why some people may come to different value propositions.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#160

Post by lionhearted »

AJ is saying don't cut spending on things that affect your production. That's absolutely a no-brainer. Buy yourself good tools, ensure you get good sleep, keep your health up, keep your ability to walk.

Always spend more to increase your production by a bigger amount. It pays for itself in the end.

Now, how much should you cut on pure consumption? That's a tricky one. I tend to cut my consumption as low as I can without hurting my production. But do always spend well on tools, on getting your production up, on your health, and on taking good care of people who do right by you. Absolutely don't go cheap on that stuff, you wind up with less in the long run if you do.

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