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Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

ajkesslerblog.com

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Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#51

Post by dprice1 »

I'm in a state of disbelief that this is the top article on HN right now.

Reading this article made me feel like I was shopping in the discount aisle of the pop-psych megalo-mart. This article is cheap shoes. It is poorly written, contains numerous abuses of the English language, and aims low at an obvious insight; the comments have been an order of magnitude more insightful. The author utterly misunderstands the meaning of the main thing he impugns: Frugality. Sorry, but this is a cheap knife with a flimsy blade.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#53

Post by danssig »

yason wrote: post #24

I don't think that being frugal has ever been about going cheap. Frugality is not about consuming but investing in your life: that often contradicts with cheap. Frugality is about not buying things you don't need but buying things you can't live without. A frugal person will typically invest in quality because he knows he'll be using the item for years and doesn't want to replace it every few. I wouldn't consider mys…

I think the disconnect here is your use of the term frugal. In the US (at least the south) every time I've ever heard anyone say they were frugal they meant they were cheap. They would buy the cheapest possible thing and use it well past the point it was presentable. I've even heard such people claim the cheaper thing must be better quality because it's cheaper. Sadly, I'm not even exaggerating.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#54

Post by Shant »

yason wrote: post #24

I don't think that being frugal has ever been about going cheap. Frugality is not about consuming but investing in your life: that often contradicts with cheap. Frugality is about not buying things you don't need but buying things you can't live without. A frugal person will typically invest in quality because he knows he'll be using the item for years and doesn't want to replace it every few. I wouldn't consider mys…

Agreed. Another good way of looking at it is that managing your spending should be like managing any other finite resource, like time.

No one really thinks it makes sense to save your time by not spending time on anything at all. You want to be frugal with your time -- you save it in order to splurge on the things that matter and will give you the most benefit/productivity. I think it's the same with money -- cheapness is a mentally lazy way to save money, frugality is a smarter way.

As a side note, I've never understood the obsession with making food purchases your main source of money-saving. The idea of "cheap calories" seems so misguided when you take into account that, down the line, those diabetes and heart disease treatments will be anything but cheap. Not to mention what you lose in productivity with the mental and physical sluggishness that comes from eating crappy, fake food.

I'm all for ramen-profitable, but I'll pass on the ramen. If only "3 year old shoes and grass-fed steak profitable" had a better ring to it.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#55

Post by oasisbob »

lwhi wrote: post #45

I disagree. I find this ode to consumerism quite distasteful. Sure, buy quality items if you can afford them, they'll often be worth the investment - but choosing to be frugal because of difficult financial circumstances is a good thing . Most people don't need half of what they buy. As for 'being fugal makes you a loser'; I think if the choice is being seen as a loser by the author of the article, and being broke an…

One reason his article resonates with me is because everything chosen as examples are quite personal and practical: Shoes. Bedding. Tools. Hygiene.

Were he arguing that we should all purchase the newest kitchen gadgets, technical life improvement fads, or whatever, I would agree.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#56

Post by danssig »

wickedchicken wrote: post #30

The privilege of spending extra on "nice things" is almost purely in the realm of the well-to-do. This is the rationale Rich White People™ use when buying L.L. Bean backpacks (LIFETIME WARRANTY GUYS) that end up piled in attics and covered in dust from neglect. Also, a downside of 'nice stuff' is you have to lug it everywhere. If you lead even a moderately itinerant lifestyle, this totally blows . Don't listen to som…

Sounds like you're a "frugal" person who got offended at this (correct) message.

>Also, a downside of 'nice stuff' is you have to lug it everywhere.

What on earth are you talking about? If you buy a cheap generic $200 17" laptop you'll have to lug it around just as much as a nice MBP. The difference is; you'll have to replace the cheapy about 10 times in the lifetime of my MBP.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#57

Post by dagw »

copenja wrote: post #20

Wow, I disagree. Starting with expensive shoes. I wear flip-flops, shorts, and a t-shirt to work everyday. I'm pretty comfortable. I don't see the correlation between expensive footwear and comfort. Beds. Yes, you spend 1/3 your life in bed. And you spend it unconscious. You spend about 0.03% of your conscious life in bed while falling asleep (30 mins a day). But more importantly: Relax. Just because you make a certa…

I don't see the correlation between expensive footwear and comfort.

For me the difference between good shoes and bad shoes is desperately wanting to sit down after a an hour on my feet and being able to walk for 8-10 hours without really feeling it. And while far from all expensive shoes are comfortable, I've yet to find a pair of comfortable shoes for less than $120, and my $350+ hiking boots are pure magic and somehow make even the hardest hike under the heaviest of loads so much easier.

As for beds, you're not unconscious while you're sleeping, you're sleeping, and not all sleep is equal. Sleeping in a comfortable bed means I wake up far more refreshed and with far less stiffness and muscle pain, than sleeping exactly the same amount of time in an uncomfortable bed.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#58

Post by adrianN »

lwhi wrote: post #45

I disagree. I find this ode to consumerism quite distasteful. Sure, buy quality items if you can afford them, they'll often be worth the investment - but choosing to be frugal because of difficult financial circumstances is a good thing . Most people don't need half of what they buy. As for 'being fugal makes you a loser'; I think if the choice is being seen as a loser by the author of the article, and being broke an…

I think you misunderstood the intent of the author. He doesn't advocate buying things that you don't need, he wants you to save that money so that you can buy quality where quality matters.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#59

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

There are two points here - the practical one (don't buy cheap stuff, you save money but it costs you time because it doesn't work as well, breaks and causes more grief than it's worth) and the mental one (because you're worth it).

The first one is fine and bang on the money, but are people actually getting their sense of self worth from the quality of their nail clippers or having pot pourri in the bathroom? Seriously?

If that's really the case then I'd suggest that people look at the underlying issue of why this is rather than papering over the cracks by buying nice stuff. The idea that your self worth comes down to your stuff is horrible and should only be true in the world of advertising and marketing.

Re: Being Frugal Makes You A Loser

#60

Post by danssig »

jerrya wrote: post #25

I tend to buy in two strategies. Either so cheap but functional I don't mind throwing it out later (as eco bad as that might be), or buying good quality wares. I believe that if you can afford good quality wares, that that will both make you happier and leave you with something of substantial resale value. So it may be a better financial strategy. Compare cheap Target cabinet with "Handmade Amish Furniture." That sai…

> and makes no effort to understand that many people cannot afford the quality goods the author can

A study done years ago found that the reason poor people stay poor is because they always buy the cheapest option so any money they save up ends up getting used right away to replace something. A never ending cycle of buy cheap/replace broken cheap stuff.

>For example, I use to drive sports cars and convertibles, but now I drive cheap econo-boxes. Why? They tend to be more reliable, less expensive per mile to maintain,

The point of buying quality is that it is cheaper to use and maintain. I think you're doing an apple/orange comparison here. Your sports cars were probably on the low end (and the quality end is probably just not attainable by working class people) while your "cheap econo-boxes" are probably higher on the quality scale for their class. You weren't being cheap here.

I know plenty of people who do go cheap with cars: they buy old used cars so they can do the repairs themselves. And every weekend that's exactly what they're doing: repairs. If they ever stopped and counted up their costs in time, parts and eventually replacing with another clunker they could probably lease a BMW cheaper.

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