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EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

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Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#111
post #93

Hmmm... Just after I watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF3sp-q3Zmk and thought the future was RISC-V

Even ignoring specific criticism of RISC-V - the ISA means fuck all if you can't build the actual uarch that implements it. We are probably going to see x86 struggle because of issue-width (although Jim Keller seriously hinted something enormous when he was still at Intel), but the ISA itself (to 1*) isn't much of a CPU

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> … government grants during WWII Seems like we're missing some "proper" motivation/focus/constraints now like war on this scale can provide… not just the EU, but this kind of diktat-innovation is increasingly more present everywhere… Probably goes hand in hand with the ever present bailout olympics for those deemed TBTF…

I used to believe the "proper motivation" - like winning the war - mattered. Then I read "War Is a Racket", a 1935 short book by US general Smedley Darlington Butler, which in many places argues that even during an active war, companies will happily steal and squander the war funding. So now I'm not sure how much you can expect from such motivation. Probably it's best to assume that some amount of graft will always h…

Well i'm not sure gunboat diplomacy and banana/global policing wars provide sufficient motivation compared to total wars… can only steal and squander so much before your factories get bombed and supply chains crippled.

I would agree if only the money dumps stopped ending up going mostly in the same places… lol

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#113
post #86
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contributed to a couple of projects that received money from FP7 (sort of the previous iteration of Horizon 2020). In a certain sense, the whole thing seemed like a huge waste of money. Software (and hardware) projects were completed, and nothing was ever done with them. We produced over 20k pages worth of paperwork (which was all mandatory if we wanted to get the money), which I'm guessing no one ever read. Don't…

But isn't this typical to R&D ? that only 1 of N projects gets used for commercial purposes ?

I read the previous comment as: there wasn’t anyone at the end trying to help make it actually commercialized

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#114

The world starts realising all the processors that everyone depends on is mainly from Taiwan. I just wrote an article[1] about the importance of processors and talking about key players such that help the semis industry such ASML, and why it's not that simple to get into the game. . It's not as easy as pouring money into some companies. Sourcing trusted partners + years (decades?) of R&D might be needed to achieve wh…

I hope governments, including EU, will realize that and help (commercially, diplomatically and of course militarily) Taiwan not being invaded by its greedy neighbor.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#115
post #80
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show where Horizon2020 squandered money? Or gave any other reason to bash the EU?

I know of two companies getting money. The first ones entire business model is EU funds. They “make” only the necessary burocratic documentation. They have zero intentions of producing anything. The other is large and dirty af with bribes. If you try to compete with them for EU grants, you are going to get an investigation into your business for misspending EU funds. Because they know the right people.

Would be good to name them publicly and/or perhaps have some investigative journalists of your choice poke them a bit.

Doing nothing and just giving up doesn't make corruption go away.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#116
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name examples of EU initiatives on that level that delivered the desired results? EDIT: I am asking because I seriously want to know. I haven’t made up my mind yet what to think about the whole thing. I am not familiar with successful EU initiatives. I’m open in believing this can work if there were successful examples in the past.

> I am not familiar with successful EU initiative. The EU Cohesion Fund is one. Since 2007, ~133 billion € got invested in the poorer countries of the EU to improve trans-european traffic infrastructure (TEN, aka road, rail, waterways) and environmental projects (e.g. villages hooked up to proper sewage pipes with treatment plants at the end, instead of dumping sewage to the groundwater / into rivers and seas).

EU funds for improving infrastructure is the only money that actually is not mostly money down the drain. Unfortunately programmes that don’t have such concrete outcomes (like this one) are entirely different.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#117

EU has the tech. ASML is #2 company in EURO STOXX 50 index with 5.69% weight. ASML is the world's largest photolithography systems manufacturer and the only one producing extreme ultraviolet lithography machines. These EUV scanners are expensive as hell. Last years model costs $120 million per piece and you need 10-15 of them for TSMC gigafactory. TWINSCAN NXE:3400C (7 and 5 nm nodes, >170 wafers per hour) is probabl…

The previous top model NXE:3400B, "weighs 180 tons and needs 20 trucks or three fully loaded Boeing 747s for shipment. The price tag is $120 million." [1] [1] https://www.laserfocusworld.com/blogs/article/14039015/how-d... .

That's ~$.66/g. A car at that price would be around $1M.

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#118
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This mindset is born out of seeing how the game is played and where the money goes from past initiatives. Why would this one be in any way different? To quote a very rich and slimey asshole I’ve interacted with who’s income is largely from such initiatives. It’s just money for papers.

Ask for transparency and report slimey assholes. If you want the change, be the change.

Reporting corruption only works if there's someone to report it to who has both the power and the political will to actually do something about it. That simply does not exist within the EU as an institution. I don't think it's possible to easily explain exactly what's wrong with the EU's accountability and anti-corruption structures; endless column inches have been spent on the problems, mostly in somewhat niche publications and read mainly by people deeply interested in EU politics. (Which may also be part of the problem. Even before Brexit, few cared, and the political polarization around Brexit has pushed the idea that the EU has structural problems outside the realm of mainstream discourse. Take a look at the comments in this HN discussion for example!)

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#119
post #3

Are there any companies in EU who are developing chips now? I only know ASML but that only makes the wafers. I ask as I can't imagine the government doing this. So there must be some company behind this deal.

Zeiss does a lot of work for microchip industry.(lithography)

Re: EU Signs €145B Declaration to Develop Next Gen Processors and 2nm Technology

#120

EU has the tech. ASML is #2 company in EURO STOXX 50 index with 5.69% weight. ASML is the world's largest photolithography systems manufacturer and the only one producing extreme ultraviolet lithography machines. These EUV scanners are expensive as hell. Last years model costs $120 million per piece and you need 10-15 of them for TSMC gigafactory. TWINSCAN NXE:3400C (7 and 5 nm nodes, >170 wafers per hour) is probabl…

ASML is impressive for sure, but having the litho doesn't mean you can make good chips. As a mediocre analogy, you don't expect to be able to write good novels because you got your hands on a printer. I think much of the relevant general-purpose chip design knowledge we had (ARM) left the EU this morning. I don't yet see any other chip company (eg NXP etc) suddenly be the next Intel or AMD yet (let alone the next App…

On the other hand, without the printing press your reach as a novel autor was severely limited - to the point there were no novel authors basically.
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