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USDS Digital Services Playbook

playbook.cio.gov

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Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#61

Post by ineedasername »

stevesycombacct wrote: post #17

I have a lot of heartburn reading something like this. I spent a decade in government consulting trying to implement anything resembling "data science" or "DevOps" and got repeatedly shut down by higher ups or by random bureaucrats that saw any modern practices, including any technology, as a threat. Excel macros working one day, then prohibited the next by new IT policies. Directors demanding that service line bosse…

Were you working for the USDS though? My understanding is that when they're brought in, red tape doesn't have to be cut so much as it jumps out of their way in advance of their arrival. Basically a "special forces" digital intervention team with situational authority over the normal obstructionist BS.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#62

Post by PopeDotNinja »

jolux wrote: post #59
paulmd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the "total compensation" is no longer good either. "The pay sucks but you get great benefits" meme is no longer true of most state/federal government jobs, those benefits have been drastically shaved down over the last 30 years. The other major recruiting problem is marijuana prohibition. Government has a lot of problems retaining high-skill IT people because a huge number of computer-touchers smoke. iirc FB…

In particular you can't get any kind of security clearance if you have any history of cannabis usage, as far as I know. I wanted to enlist in the military a few years ago but unfortunately my history with weed means I'm more or less excluded, I think.

Did you actually try applying? I think they are looking for candidness and some distance between you & the chronic. If you say you used to smoke, but quit two years ago and don’t miss it at all, that’s different than wearing a 420BlazeIt t-shirt to the interview and saying you haven’t smoked in almost an hour.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#63

Post by jolux »

eddietejeda wrote: post #60
jolux wrote: post #19

I think the biggest problem any US government agency has (federal or state) in producing services that leverage modern technology is that they cannot afford to pay people market rates. We have a mentality in the US that government cannot do anything right, but it seems of late (last 40 years or so) that we are kneecapping government's ability to execute and then complaining about it when it can't and making pronounce…

While mostly true, let’s put this into perspective: A GS-15 in a metro area like New York, DC, and San Francisco, with experience, can get over $170. Throw in performance bonus and matching contributions, and total compensation is $180k+. That does not compare with the high end of the private sector, but that’s reasonable for a lot of people, even at tech companies. You can estimate here: https://www.federalpay.org/g…

Sure, but this is not the case with state governments. My point may have been diluted by including the federal government.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#64

Post by jolux »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #62
jolux wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In particular you can't get any kind of security clearance if you have any history of cannabis usage, as far as I know. I wanted to enlist in the military a few years ago but unfortunately my history with weed means I'm more or less excluded, I think.

Did you actually try applying? I think they are looking for candidness and some distance between you & the chronic. If you say you used to smoke, but quit two years ago and don’t miss it at all, that’s different than wearing a 420BlazeIt t-shirt to the interview and saying you haven’t smoked in almost an hour.

I haven't tried applying, no. I did some research into it and it seemed dicey. I also have friends with clearance who say it's a complete tossup depending on who you talk to.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#65

Post by dkhenry »

shanear wrote: post #14
say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #10

I wonder how much the government paid consultants to write this.

I was a member of the USDS for 4 years. Every member of the USDS is a government employee with a fully transparent government salary, most of whom are taking a massive pay cut to serve their country and its citizens.

Not only that, but the entire process is fairly transparent. For instance the code for this website is available here

https://github.com/usds/playbook

Along with full commit history.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#66

Post by ineedasername »

nosmokewhereiam wrote: post #32

Doing more for less often equates to 80% security because 99% security is an order of magnitude more costly.

There's also always a trade off between usability & user friction with high security systems. Although improvements in security software usability have eliminated some of those barriers. And systems security is like physical safes/locks: It should be rated in terms of how much effort it would take to bypass it, and implemented in proportion to the value/risk of exposure of the secure objects/data. Clearly this is an idealized model though: SolarWinds has show that approaches to securing high-value assets are.... lacking.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#67

Post by matheweis »

jolux wrote: post #63
eddietejeda wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While mostly true, let’s put this into perspective: A GS-15 in a metro area like New York, DC, and San Francisco, with experience, can get over $170. Throw in performance bonus and matching contributions, and total compensation is $180k+. That does not compare with the high end of the private sector, but that’s reasonable for a lot of people, even at tech companies. You can estimate here: https://www.federalpay.org/g…

Sure, but this is not the case with state governments. My point may have been diluted by including the federal government.

I worked for a state university for several years, and while there were certainly those there to collect their paycheck, there were also many who - as the parent suggests - had a very earnest desire to do meaningful work.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#68

Post by wslack »

catillac wrote: post #18
stevesycombacct wrote: post #17

I have a lot of heartburn reading something like this. I spent a decade in government consulting trying to implement anything resembling "data science" or "DevOps" and got repeatedly shut down by higher ups or by random bureaucrats that saw any modern practices, including any technology, as a threat. Excel macros working one day, then prohibited the next by new IT policies. Directors demanding that service line bosse…

The USDS doesn’t hire people through normal channels or for permanent hire, but hires people who have experience in the private sector and want to change the government. While it’s true that they hire significantly more junior people than before the trump admin (if you compare things like years of experience pre USDS then and now, or pre USDS salaries then and now), it’s still often experienced people who want to mak…

FWIW, I don't know if there's a significant difference along a senior vs junior axis. I think the set of people willing to consider gov employment at USDS certainly (and reasonably) changed in after the 2016 election, so USDS lost access to some talent, but there is good work happening now.

Most importantly, USDS is seen as non-partisan, and so has been able to have good impact in both administrations.

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#69

Post by wslack »

jolux wrote: post #63
eddietejeda wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While mostly true, let’s put this into perspective: A GS-15 in a metro area like New York, DC, and San Francisco, with experience, can get over $170. Throw in performance bonus and matching contributions, and total compensation is $180k+. That does not compare with the high end of the private sector, but that’s reasonable for a lot of people, even at tech companies. You can estimate here: https://www.federalpay.org/g…

Sure, but this is not the case with state governments. My point may have been diluted by including the federal government.

True, and not something that can be changed through technology, but there are good digital services operating in quite a few states!

Re: USDS Digital Services Playbook

#70

Post by wslack »

heyitsguay wrote: post #5
brdd wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree — as a direct result of play #7 in this playbook, multiple large-scale initiatives were launched; most notably 18F, which is like a "startup" within the federal government: https://18f.gsa.gov/ Another one that comes to mind is Coding It Forward, which has the express mission of creating government tech internships that rival FB/Google internships in terms of pay, experience, and mentorship: https://www.co…

Thanks for sharing! This is all good to know, I'll be reaching out to see if there's any possibility of these groups helping to address some of the issues within our institute at the NIH. Right now it's unclear to what extent that can assist an intramural research program.

There are digital groups of various sorts already operating at NIH. If the folks working on it are federal employees, there are groups that can help - but there has to be buy-in from decision makers.

Bureaucracies have infinite ways to stop something if you don't get cover from certain people.

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