Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#421

Post by cordite » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

spideymans wrote: post #249

larrymyers wrote: post #90

I really want to use Apple Maps full time on my iPhone, just because of how much clutter Google Maps has accumulated on the screen. If anything tells me Google is losing the ability to innovate it's the newly added pill buttons for pre-set searches and branded POIs on the map. I remember when this was added to MapQuest circa 2010, and was the transition from trying to have an excellent mapping experience to just addi…

>I really want to use Apple Maps full time on my iPhone, just because of how much clutter Google Maps has accumulated on the screen. Apple Maps UI: A big map, with a search bar at the bottom. Simple and nothing but the essentials. Google Maps UI: A page full of ads, a map full of ads and ads masquerading as recommendations. Plus five tab bar buttons at the bottom to not accomplish very much. I've switched to Apple Ma…

Another problem with apple maps: it has businesses at the wrong geographical location.

I was sent off 1.5 miles away on the same road, to a wallgreens, when my destination was a restaurant with friends. I came late. It was humiliating.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#422

Post by awinter-py » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

MayeulC wrote: post #318

awinter-py wrote: post #106

I'll believe spatial computing is here when I can successfully search for an open restaurant with usable outdoor dining sorted by proximity to a point shocking that businesses who are investing $10k+ in greenhouses can't list that data on G maps for search general extension of G's failure to support faceted search of any kind

Well, you can get pretty close with overpass, but I don't think "outdoor dining" is a tag in OSM? I don't often edit restaurants. https://overpass-turbo.eu/ OSM is primarily a database, it's a shame mostt frontends aren't extremely user-friendly, it could easily capture a lot of users. Brouter, OSMand, overpass are gems built on OSM data.

whoa very cool

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#423

Post by notsureaboutpg » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

julianlam wrote: post #163

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Google Maps an example of this? I think it's very clearly an app which dominated the market by offering best-in-class service for untenable prices (Maps API used to be free for developers up to an absurd amount) and is adding monetization elements now that it dominates the market. That's every VC's dream isn't it?

Yes, of course, except that the decision-making has shifted towards priorities that do not benefit the customer, though they used to. I have no interest in seeing where the nearest McDonalds is, unless I search for it. POI markers for places I need to go (via bookings/appointments) are good, but POIs for places I have never been are bad. For whatever reason I can never see the street name I want to see anymore. Betwe…

But this street name issue does nothing to tamp down the dominance of Google Maps.

No other app outstandingly handles this issue comparitive to Google Maps without having many other negatives that keep people from switching.

Every app will have problems and make changes that rub some (or all) users the wrong way. But their priority is profit and market share and they gained (and solidly retain the first) and are now moving to gain the other. That's definitely sound business strategy right there.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#424

Post by jimkleiber » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #335

jimkleiber wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two comments make me see SaaS more like paying rent for housing: If we become fully dependent on a service (shelter) and then the provider (landlord) jacks up the price, we may be quickly forced to switch services (homes) or be out of business (homeless).

unfortunately when we switch services(homes) all of our electrical devices(code) now need to be changed to work with the different way the new service(home) is wired. At this point the analogy breaks down.

Hmm. Maybe it's a spectrum, where some situations are like moving homes and others are like like moving cities (need to find a new dentist, doctor, etc) or moving countries (need to learn a new language, learn new laws, get new electrical outlet adapters, etc).

Do you think those resonate better?

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#425

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

jimkleiber wrote: post #424

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately when we switch services(homes) all of our electrical devices(code) now need to be changed to work with the different way the new service(home) is wired. At this point the analogy breaks down.

Hmm. Maybe it's a spectrum, where some situations are like moving homes and others are like like moving cities (need to find a new dentist, doctor, etc) or moving countries (need to learn a new language, learn new laws, get new electrical outlet adapters, etc). Do you think those resonate better?

I think as the size of the application increases and the API you are switching out increases in importance to the functioning of that application then the analogy of moving from home goes up from moving apartments(my small side project), to moving cities (my small side project turned into a startup that has been running half a year but isn't especially profitable yet), to moving countries (my application that many large organizations use with all sorts of different functionality built in to support the needs of those organizations)

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#426

Post by morsch » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

jdmichal wrote: post #415

matkoniecz wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Addresses and exact shop locations can be added to OSM. See https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.07298/19.93528 where it is mapped at least in a small part. > then I could easily write some scrappers to help out with filling in other data. Note that it may not possible due to copyright issues

I'm not talking about adding addresses to OSM. I'm talking about resolving features based on address. "Give me the building at address (____), because I know that's a business and I can fill in additional information."

I quickly found this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim

E.g.: https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/ui/search.html?q=pilking...

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#427

Post by uptown » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #181

uptown wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s valuable data for sale by other vendors.

What vendors are in this business?

Foursquare, but not with parking lot data, to my knowledge:

https://www.cbinsights.com/research/alternative-data-future-...

Satellite image companies sell this type of alternative data to buyers:

https://newsroom.haas.berkeley.edu/how-hedge-funds-use-satel...

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/05/stock-v...

Some of the vendors are RS Metrics, Descartes Labs and Orbital Insight.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#428

Post by jimkleiber » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #425

jimkleiber wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Maybe it's a spectrum, where some situations are like moving homes and others are like like moving cities (need to find a new dentist, doctor, etc) or moving countries (need to learn a new language, learn new laws, get new electrical outlet adapters, etc). Do you think those resonate better?

I think as the size of the application increases and the API you are switching out increases in importance to the functioning of that application then the analogy of moving from home goes up from moving apartments(my small side project), to moving cities (my small side project turned into a startup that has been running half a year but isn't especially profitable yet), to moving countries (my application that many la…

Well said. As it becomes more complex and intertwined, technologically and socially (employees, customers, etc), then it becomes harder to change. Thanks for helping to refine the analogy!

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#429

Post by jimkleiber » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #409

jimkleiber wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two comments make me see SaaS more like paying rent for housing: If we become fully dependent on a service (shelter) and then the provider (landlord) jacks up the price, we may be quickly forced to switch services (homes) or be out of business (homeless).

In many places landlords cannot suddenly jack up the price, but can only increase it in small amounts year by year. One could similarly imagine rent controls on digital services, where sudden price hikes are simply not allowed, and terminating the rental agreement one-sided is similarly restricted. The practical downsides of that kind of legislation would probably end up quite similar to rent controls.

Yes! I've found that I sometimes will keep a subscription, even if I'm not currently using it, because I've been locked in at the old price, and can feel really annoyed when they increase the price by a significant amount or percentage and force me to adopt it.

About rent control, yup, it may have the ups and downs of real estate rent control :-)

I'm also wondering, with physical real estate, there is a tangible limit to how many people can rent the space, whereas SaaS seems to make up arbitrary user limits. But maybe I'm wrong, and there is a limited number of users because each user has variable costs—in the housing analogy, utilities like water, space, wear & tear on the place, etc., and in the SaaS space, customer service, server space...I can't think of any more but maybe they're there...

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#430

Post by jimkleiber » Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 2:20 AM UTC

thesz wrote: post #226

jimkleiber wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two comments make me see SaaS more like paying rent for housing: If we become fully dependent on a service (shelter) and then the provider (landlord) jacks up the price, we may be quickly forced to switch services (homes) or be out of business (homeless).

Do not forget that in the case of cloud services you have to pay "landlord" for the stuff you move (bandwidth and volume needed to migration).

Ha, good point, perhaps that'd be like paying your landlord for utilities like water or electricity usage, but could also be paying for every time you have guests visit the house or you go up and down the stairs.