Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#291

Post by quasse » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #200

TravisLS wrote: post #18

There's a somewhat pervasive idea that advertising and brand recognition are coercive tools that will ultimately die out, replaced by better objective information about products. I'm kind of partial to this idea myself. But increasingly we seem a long way from achieving this. Amazon reviews have become such garbage, I've fallen back to pretty much relying on name brands as my placeholder for product quality. There's…

I just made a pretty big purchase decision in a field (cameras) where there is a lot of competition and reviews carry a lot of weight. In the end, the information that helped me make up my mind was from video reviews by mostly well-known photography vloggers on YouTube. This is also something that could be messed with by unscrupulous marketers, but there is a strong counterbalance to those anti-patterns: the vloggers…

> because "top photography vlogger" presumably pays better than 99% of all other work that involves photography.

Just to be clear though (I work in a field that relies heavily on niche-specifc YouTubers for marketing) - the reason that being a "top niche blogger" pays so well is because companies pay them a lot to encourage favorable opinions of their product lines.

I've seen amounts that are several multiples of my annual salary for fairly small market segment channels - and it's not explicit like "We are hiring you to post positive reviews of our products" because that would need to be disclosed. It's more along the lines of "We are nominally hiring you as a brand ambassador, you will visit our HQ and make a collaboration video". But of course, YouTubers aren't stupid, they're not going to post negative content about brands that are paying them even if it's theoretically for something else.

This is the same problem that PC hardware review magazines had back in the day - companies that purchased a lot of advertising from the parent company just happened to never get negative coverage in review articles. You can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#292

Post by jay_kyburz » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

Fej wrote: post #211

mason55 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re describing is exactly how brands work. The garbage brands will continue to cycle because there’s no reason to keep the brand name (in fact it’s better to change it so that people who got burned don’t know it’s the same). But the good brands are investing in the brand name and so they will stick around and you’ll start to recognize them. Look at a company like Anker. They operate in spaces filled with garb…

The million dollar question is, how do we know which brands are the good ones? Is there a community which tackles this sort of problem alone? The best I have found so far is to find the community surrounding a type of product, especially on Reddit - there is a community around almost every interest imaginable - and figure out which brands they recommend, via search or just asking. Often they even have advice in a sti…

There was a website here the other day that planned to build a community of people that review products as they age. A review after the first 2 weeks, 2 years then 10 years etc. "Buy for Life" or something like that.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#293

Post by zucked » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

mikehollinger wrote: post #272

CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know my comment will be lost in a sea of voices, but I need to share my experience _somewhere_ else other than amazon reviews. I got my fiancé two Christmas presents this year - both bought off Amazon. One was an electronic keyboard that was dead on arrival, the other was a snuggie type blanket that started falling apart yesterday. Both items had thousands of 5 star reviews. I usually go somewhere (anywhere) else b…

Best Buy is my secret weapon. For the last couple of years I’ve gotten gifts for people last minute with same day pickup - as small and simple as new earbuds and as large as a color laser printer. This Christmas I even got an echo show from them when Amazon itself was back ordered past the holidays.

Best Buy has done a pretty admirable job digging out from what seemed like a surefire death sentence. Target and Walmart weren't dead, but Amazon was eating their lunch.

What they are doing much better at now is the hybrid e-commerce/brick and mortar that Amazon is struggling with. Whole Foods helped give them a platform, but Whole Foods are nowhere near as prolific as Target/Walmart/Best Buy.

For all the reasons mentioned throughout this post, Amazon has gone from my first stop to far down on the list when looking to buy something.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#294

Post by zucked » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:16 PM UTC

jamiek88 wrote: post #259

briffle wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any time I put a less than 5 star review, i get contacted by the seller, who many times offer to send me a free replacement, a newer model, or another product I may be interested in, if I change my review. I have refused, but I imagine many others did that.

Ha! I got a shitty appletv stick on holder that dropped off the TV the other day after a couple months, I put up a 1 star review hoping that would happen but it hasn't as yet!

I'm pretty convinced there are a lot of sellers on these third party marketplaces that arrive with a truckload of Widget A - once Widget A sells out, they're gone... on to the next thing or rebranded and selling Widget C. Especially when you're selling a low-margin plastic commodity item.

If you don't get support while they're still actively selling YOUR widget, good luck.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#295

Post by jay_kyburz » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

orev wrote: post #92

TravisLS wrote: post #18

There's a somewhat pervasive idea that advertising and brand recognition are coercive tools that will ultimately die out, replaced by better objective information about products. I'm kind of partial to this idea myself. But increasingly we seem a long way from achieving this. Amazon reviews have become such garbage, I've fallen back to pretty much relying on name brands as my placeholder for product quality. There's…

Given the counterfeit problem on Amazon, I have been using the retailer as a proxy instead. I feel much more comfortable buying things from a known retailer like Target or Walmart, since I can rely on them to at least do some kind of due diligence on the products they carry. I think this will be the way forward for these companies to stay in business as Amazon becomes overrun with junk.

I use the retailer so that if the product breaks I can just walk back in and get my money back.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#296

Post by zucked » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

brewdad wrote: post #193

hanklazard wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also found myself buying a lot of things from Best Buy, something I would have scoffed at 5-7 years ago. These days, I just want to know that I'm getting a genuine (vs replica) product and most of the time I can go pick-up my purchase same day, solving the "fast shipping" problem.

I've shifted a lot of purchases to Best Buy as well. I also ordered far more products directly from the manufacturer's web site this year. Many offer the same free shipping if you are buying anything of value. I figure if Netgear sends me a fake switch when ordering directly from them it's time to give up on capitalism.

Searching out the manufacturer (assuming there is a brand behind the product and not just an Amazon shop) has made my recent efforts, too. A surprising number of times, the item is cheaper from the manufacturer, and they offer free shipping or a coupon for further discount. I imagine that works out for the buyer and seller - I get a genuine product at their chosen price, and they get to keep fees that would have otherwise gone to Amazon.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#297

Post by zucked » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:26 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #154

mbesto wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Walmart and Target will jump ahead. Actually, I think it's D2C that will jump ahead. The problem with Walmart and Target is they either (a) have limited brand selection (target) or (b) they dilute themselves so much to compete with Amazon that they eventually become Amazon (Walmart).

Limited brand selection is actually a benefit. I don't want to spend an hour flipping through shitty USB-C cables to find the one that won't nuke my device. I want to pay the buyer at the retailer a few cents to do that for me.

You're just shuffling the effort of finding a good quality cable upstream to finding a good quality retailer.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#298

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:29 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #182

bombcar wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusingly enough if you trace the history of brand names ... this is why they started! And this is the strength that the major retailers have against Amazon - if Amazon won't police (and they have problems with commingling counterfeit brands, too) then Walmart and Target will jump ahead.

I get the sense this problem is massively overstated around here. My experience on Amazon is great, same for everybody I know who uses it.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#299

Post by ethbr0 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

mbesto wrote: post #254

ethbr0 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. I don't think anyone actually wants D2C, for rare-purchase (ie the mass majority of goods). It's one thing if the brand has an ongoing relationship with its customers, but nobody wants the burden of dealing with 1,000 slightly different processes for ordering toilet paper. That's the inherent value of Paypal et al. -- abstracting diversity on one side into a standard interface on the customer side.

> It's one thing if the brand has an ongoing relationship with its customers, but nobody wants the burden of dealing with 1,000 slightly different processes for ordering toilet paper. That's the inherent value of Paypal et al. -- abstracting diversity on one side into a standard interface on the customer side. I guess you've never ordered something from a Shopify based store then?

Shopify is Stripe + Ruby. Same strategic idea as PayPal

Point being: D2C doesn't solve the trust problem in a scaleable way, except for repeat purchases

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#300

Post by mhh__ » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

TravisLS wrote: post #18

There's a somewhat pervasive idea that advertising and brand recognition are coercive tools that will ultimately die out, replaced by better objective information about products. I'm kind of partial to this idea myself. But increasingly we seem a long way from achieving this. Amazon reviews have become such garbage, I've fallen back to pretty much relying on name brands as my placeholder for product quality. There's…

> [first paragraph]

This is effectively being debated by proxy is most apple threads - i.e. It's easy to forget that we're debating this on HN, where even the least informed still have some idea what's going on whereas most consumers only information about a product is from very few sources and mostly advertising.