Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#131

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

open-source-ux wrote: post #112

TeMPOraL wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I myself am convinced that brand recognition is on borrowed time - that is, recognition of old brands may still work as useful filter, but new quality brands will be near-impossible to establish. The reason for that: we're being DDoSed with brands on e-commerce sites. For an increasing amount of product categories, you're going to find 10+ "brands" on Amazon that are selling the same white-label garbage class product…

The popularity of drop shopping has probably played some part in the spread of low quality no-name products on Amazon. YouTube is stuffed with videos on drop shipping. Many drop-shippers have no interest in the product they are selling or it's quality. They're only interested in whether they have picked a profitable niche. When that niche gets too crowded, they move to another product space before the wider drop shop…

That may be true. Between brand DDoS and dropshipper spam, I no longer buy anything of consequence on any e-commerce platform - I only order from the sites of local chain stores (electroncis, pharmacies, comestics) or directly from manufacturer. I probably pay slightly more because of it, but I avoid dealing with fraudlent sellers and fraudlent products.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#132

Post by throwaway894345 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

Does anyone know of an alternative to Amazon that addresses quality and environmental issues (ideally something that isn't trying to sell me the latest hot garbage from whatever country is willing to trash the environment and enslave its citizens for a quick buck)?

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#133

Post by coldpie » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

hanklazard wrote: post #122

fuball63 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was of a similar mind this year, but when I went to Walmart's website, they had 3rd party sellers on there too. It is really annoying, especially with the pandemic, trying to sift through all the trash online. I ended up buying we webcam from BestBuy.com, because a webcam I got from Amazon was pay-for-review and was utter garbage. Just more evidence, to me, that the era of internet business models being "get everyt…

I've also found myself buying a lot of things from Best Buy, something I would have scoffed at 5-7 years ago. These days, I just want to know that I'm getting a genuine (vs replica) product and most of the time I can go pick-up my purchase same day, solving the "fast shipping" problem.

Since NewEgg started up their 3rd party seller program, I've also switched to Best Buy. Running out of places to buy from that aren't flooded with trash.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#134

Post by ve55 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

whatisthiseven wrote: post #71

GavinMcG wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always look at negative reviews. From those you can tell if there's a consistent concern, if someone got a fake, or if there was just a preference mismatch for someone.

This also used to be my strategy, but now I am concerned that competing brands are sabotaging each other by just leaving poor 1-star reviews. I say this as I have read some low reviews that just made no sense, or didn't reference aspects of the product that existed. I still trust 1-star reviews more than 5-star, but I don't take them as gospel. As you said, if there is a consistent message across all the negative rev…

I came up with this as well. My strategy for products was often to read 1-star reviews, and there were often two cases:

1) The reviews are low-quality and not indicative of much, so there are few legitimate complaints, or

2) The reviews showcase a significant problem with the product alongside proof, and/or are often made by intelligent consumers

After enough time doing this with success, I've started to see many more 1-star reviews on products that get highly upvoted until they're the 'top review(s)', which don't really contain anything useful at all. They try to appear like they are an instance of 2), but often offer little evidence or quality argumentation.

I imagine it's easy to upvote 1/-star reviews on competitors' products to drive a lot of their traffic elsewhere instead. At this point I would love having a review system that is curated to only be from people I like/trust, but that is another whole story and ecosystem of course.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#135

Post by username90 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

Grimm1 wrote: post #87

pjc50 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the last few years of politics have convinced me that objective information is more likely to die out, replaced by advertising, brand recognition, and coercive tools.

An older friend of mine made the observation that really before the few large news networks and papers in the last 40-50 years objective information that everyone roughly agreed upon was not the norm. Yellow journalism, hearsay and rumors dominated common conversation. He observed that with the internet we're returning to what was this "normal" state with anybody being able to post something and gain widespread recog…

How much of that was the American propaganda machine doing its job to keep the western world united against communism? The change we are seeing could just be the end of the cold war leading to slow return to normal and not due to technology at all.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#136

Post by JadeNB » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #32

TravisLS wrote: post #18

There's a somewhat pervasive idea that advertising and brand recognition are coercive tools that will ultimately die out, replaced by better objective information about products. I'm kind of partial to this idea myself. But increasingly we seem a long way from achieving this. Amazon reviews have become such garbage, I've fallen back to pretty much relying on name brands as my placeholder for product quality. There's…

Amusingly enough if you trace the history of brand names ... this is why they started! And this is the strength that the major retailers have against Amazon - if Amazon won't police (and they have problems with commingling counterfeit brands, too) then Walmart and Target will jump ahead.

> Amusingly enough if you trace the history of brand names ... this is why they started!

That sounds like an interesting history. Do you have any recommendations for reading on it?

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#137

Post by mbesto » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #32

TravisLS wrote: post #18

There's a somewhat pervasive idea that advertising and brand recognition are coercive tools that will ultimately die out, replaced by better objective information about products. I'm kind of partial to this idea myself. But increasingly we seem a long way from achieving this. Amazon reviews have become such garbage, I've fallen back to pretty much relying on name brands as my placeholder for product quality. There's…

Amusingly enough if you trace the history of brand names ... this is why they started! And this is the strength that the major retailers have against Amazon - if Amazon won't police (and they have problems with commingling counterfeit brands, too) then Walmart and Target will jump ahead.

> Walmart and Target will jump ahead.

Actually, I think it's D2C that will jump ahead. The problem with Walmart and Target is they either (a) have limited brand selection (target) or (b) they dilute themselves so much to compete with Amazon that they eventually become Amazon (Walmart).

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#138

Post by quercusa » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #74

TeMPOraL wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I myself am convinced that brand recognition is on borrowed time - that is, recognition of old brands may still work as useful filter, but new quality brands will be near-impossible to establish. The reason for that: we're being DDoSed with brands on e-commerce sites. For an increasing amount of product categories, you're going to find 10+ "brands" on Amazon that are selling the same white-label garbage class product…

> recognition of old brands may still work as useful filter Not for long. How many dependable long-lived brands have been mopped up by hedge funds and private equity and subsequently slapped on the cheapest crap you can make? Remember when Craftsman tools used to be top notch?

GE used to be a marker for reasonable quality but over the past couple of decades they've licensed their name for all kinds of crappy consumer products.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#139

Post by ethbr0 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #130

CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know my comment will be lost in a sea of voices, but I need to share my experience _somewhere_ else other than amazon reviews. I got my fiancé two Christmas presents this year - both bought off Amazon. One was an electronic keyboard that was dead on arrival, the other was a snuggie type blanket that started falling apart yesterday. Both items had thousands of 5 star reviews. I usually go somewhere (anywhere) else b…

I've completely stopped ordering from Amazon, for three reasons: they have too much market power, they have serious ethics problems, and their 3rd party seller program has made the buying experience garbage. Welcome to the club.

I've come full circle and only order books (usually used) or things I don't care if they're Chinese bargain-version off Amazon anymore.

Target, or occasionally Walmart, gets what used to be Amazon's business from me.

Re: Amazon still hasn’t fixed its problem with bait-and-switch reviews

#140

Post by coldpie » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

Grimm1 wrote: post #87

pjc50 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the last few years of politics have convinced me that objective information is more likely to die out, replaced by advertising, brand recognition, and coercive tools.

An older friend of mine made the observation that really before the few large news networks and papers in the last 40-50 years objective information that everyone roughly agreed upon was not the norm. Yellow journalism, hearsay and rumors dominated common conversation. He observed that with the internet we're returning to what was this "normal" state with anybody being able to post something and gain widespread recog…

> I think, after looking into it a bit more, I agree with him and that our period of fairly objective news and political information and the general consensus that brought was the anomaly. This raises the question then how do we as society re-learn to cope with that and filter out non objective information because clearly we're not doing so well with it now.

I don't know the answer, but my opinion is that we need to stop optimizing for views. I.e. kill the online advertising market. You can do your part by installing an ad blocker and paying for services you like with real money.