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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#521

Post by fsflover »

simonh wrote: post #461
fsflover wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite strange given what they have been doing with repair: http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs... https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recyc... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489

Repair is only a factor because it contributes to device longevity, but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way. In theory they could make it even longer but it's a relatively marginal issue in environmental terms. I agree there are other reasons that make it desirable as well and every little helps, but the fact remains iPhones have industry leading overall environmental impac…

> but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way

After iPhones are not supported anymore they turn into bricks. This typically happens in 5 years, which is not too bad, but it's far from being perfect. Why should a smartphone be supported for much shorter than laptops? Remember: reduce, reuse, recycle, in this order.

Librem 5 GNU/Linux phone has a lifetime support with updates.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#522

Post by Cyph0n »

thepasswordis wrote: post #347
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #29

I hate how American (and European) companies will virtue signal with commercials and campaigns (Apple and Nike come to mind) toting their ESG credentials but then will be doing stuff like this. People fall for it and it really pisses me off. Welcome to marketing. It’s also crazy to me that China isn’t facing more severe backlash for the treatment of the Uyghurs. It’s reprehensible and disgusting.

The absolute most egregious example of this (imo) is Colin Kaepernick. He is literally paid by slavers . He is a multi-millionaire off of the profits of slave labor. It's disgusting that Nike is somehow putting forth a "woke" face while literally using slaves to build their products . Slavery is not woke. And Colin Kaepernick is a particular sort of disgusting that he is happy to accept millions of dollars from slave…

Sounds like the kneeling really got to some people!

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#523

Post by onethought »

jack_h wrote: post #511
onethought wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also spreads wealth. China lifted more people out of poverty than any nation in history, because of globalisation. Are you saying poverty is less important than workers rights? Economies develop. This is part of it. You’ve just had a “protectionist” President, US is worse off by almost every measure... as a counter example to your “protectionism is needed”

> You’ve just had a “protectionist” President, US is worse off by almost every measure... Could we get some citations to back this up? It seems too soon to even evaluate all of the effects of the (soon to be) previous administrations policies. But as a discussion point, Trump moved to end the postal subsidies China enjoyed which made it cheaper for us to have something shipped from there than to buy locally. How does…

That’s a single policy. Perhaps that’s a good one?

Imagine a world where China and the U.S. were on better terms, start of the health crisis China helped provide huge amounts Of PPE required. Drs and epidemiologists from China with experience could have helped drs in the US. Instead they were coming off the back of a trade war over soy beans and hiding information from each other.

Globalisation has effects that expand beyond the economy.

As for citations: the US has just passed the second, largest stimulus package in its history beating or the first from a couple of months back. Are we’re ignoring this gorilla so much that people need citations?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#524

Post by ogre_codes »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #270

I’ve minimized my consumption of meat over the years, because the way we treat animals in the factory farms is too cruel. It’s not perfect, because I eat dairy and eggs which introduce their own set of cruelty. Likewise, I’m severely disappointed by Apple. I’ve switched from Android to iPhone because I like Apple’s stance on privacy. I’m extremely bothered that Apple with its resource is not lobbying to change the pl…

A huge percentage of consumer electronics—including smartphones—are manufactured by a small number of often questionable companies. Microsoft, Dell, HP, Lenovo, all have similar supply chains and manufacturing.

I'm not entirely sure what a good way to pick an "ethical" manufacturer is. One thing I like about Apple is they are somewhat transparent and at least seem to audit their supply chain.

It would be nice if instead of doing pieces like this, these organizations would give a list of manufacturers they recommend and why.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#525

Post by fsflover »

PurpleFoxy wrote: post #509
fsflover wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite strange given what they have been doing with repair: http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs... https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recyc... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489

Apple has official repair locations all over the planet and they stock parts long after products are discontinued. Yes it kinda sucks that they killed third party repair but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts. For my pixel 2, while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera,…

> while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera, the screen was glued in in a way making it very difficult to open without smashing.

You just presented a technical restriction, didn't you?

> but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts.

I disagree. This is not so much about DIY-repairs, but about a free market for third-party repairs, without which Apple can force people to pay as much as they want.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#526

Post by ogre_codes »

matwood wrote: post #483
christophilus wrote: post #34

I’ve decided to leave the Apple ecosystem in 2021. But the problem is not isolated to Apple. In fact, I’d be surprised if other, cheaper products aren’t quite a bit worse. Is there an electronics company that does a better job? (That’s not a rhetorical question.)

Apple is one of the better ones in a sea of really bad. It's a low bar and certainly doesn't mean Apple is perfect. There might be some boutique phone makers who claim to be better like Librem or Fairphone, but because they have fewer resources than the big players it's much harder for them to really know. And if you dig into the mining side of the rare earths, worker conditions drop quickly.

This is the big problem. Few of these companies have the resources to verify their supply chain is free of abuse. The smaller companies likely have even less control over their supply chain.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#527

Post by matsemann »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #466

To the tune of Childish Gambinos "This is America": This is globalism This was always the point of offloading to other countries. Less regulations, lower wages, less powerful workers and workers unions, and higher profit margins. Ross Perot was right but nobody listened to him. Apple isnt unique, and this isnt the first time. Its systemic. So tired of the trope of accusing anybody critical of globalism of being an is…

Instead of blaming globalism, maybe one should make companies responsible for their external effects? As in, lawfully responsible, to be tried as if they did it themselves. Like pollution, using other companies to do their unethical biddings etc (child or slave labor for instance).

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#528

Post by Jommi »

findthewords wrote: post #402
Jommi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other way would you suggest companies could link shareholder incentives and ethics? Hitting ESG metrics / recieving ESG credentials is a way for companies to benefit from doing the right thing.

Ethical behaviour cannot be measured. Companies are still maximising shareholder value. They are doing it by gaming ESG metrics. Nothing has changed.

I think it can be approximated. And that's better than nothing. Would you agree?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#529

Post by arzt »

anoraca wrote: post #494
heavyset_go wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so that we're on the same page, you're claiming that virtual slave prisoners are being lifted out of poverty through forced labor, correct?

That's a straw man. They're saying that hundreds of millions of Chinese people (and others around the world) have risen out of poverty because of globalism. You're only giving credit for the negative impacts of globalism, and in kind of a duplicitous manner.

I am not sure I understand this argument. The article states the "laborers" in question are given a choice as follows: submit to unpaid forced labor else go to a CCP reeducation camp. Nowhere is it stated those subjected to this choice have the opportunity to take advantage of rising living standards.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#530

Post by [deleted] »

turminal wrote: post #518
Fezzik wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple absolutely attempts to present itself as a morally/ethically superior company. See, for example, from just 7 months ago: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/31/apple-ceo-tim-cook-email-to-... Or, re the environment, from Apple’s current website: https://www.apple.com/environment/ You can find all sorts of similar posturing on a number of topics from Apple.

> Or, re the environment, from Apple’s current website: https://www.apple.com/environment/ Someone should calculate how much energy an iPhone uses for rendering that page (or any other on their website). I bet reducing that would make a difference environmentally.

[deleted]
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