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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#511

Post by jack_h »

onethought wrote: post #487
arminiusreturns wrote: post #466

To the tune of Childish Gambinos "This is America": This is globalism This was always the point of offloading to other countries. Less regulations, lower wages, less powerful workers and workers unions, and higher profit margins. Ross Perot was right but nobody listened to him. Apple isnt unique, and this isnt the first time. Its systemic. So tired of the trope of accusing anybody critical of globalism of being an is…

It also spreads wealth. China lifted more people out of poverty than any nation in history, because of globalisation. Are you saying poverty is less important than workers rights? Economies develop. This is part of it. You’ve just had a “protectionist” President, US is worse off by almost every measure... as a counter example to your “protectionism is needed”

> You’ve just had a “protectionist” President, US is worse off by almost every measure...

Could we get some citations to back this up? It seems too soon to even evaluate all of the effects of the (soon to be) previous administrations policies.

But as a discussion point, Trump moved to end the postal subsidies China enjoyed which made it cheaper for us to have something shipped from there than to buy locally. How does this hurt the US?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#512

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

jedberg wrote: post #481
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect one of the largest and most powerful companies in the world that is always virtue signaling to have their supply chain 100% slave free. That is not a big ask.

It's a pretty big ask actually. They have 1000s of suppliers. I'm sure their vetting process is pretty thorough already, and then they act swiftly when they find out something was missed. Feel reasonable to me.

Instead of rambling about social justice better start vet your suppliers. People think Facebook should be responsible and vet what billions of people write online but somehow Apple the wealthiest company can't vet their damn supply chain? It has really come to this that these affluent privileged Silicon Valley tech bros rather have some 90 year old arrested for not wearing a mask while rambling about it on Twitter than have Apple vet their God damn suppliers.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#513

Post by legulere »

As long as companies Apple are not legally responsible for their supply chain in front of developed countries’ courts nothing will change. In Switzerland a law that would have changed this was recently rejected. Hopefully another country makes the first step.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#514

Post by ksk »

onethought wrote: post #487
arminiusreturns wrote: post #466

To the tune of Childish Gambinos "This is America": This is globalism This was always the point of offloading to other countries. Less regulations, lower wages, less powerful workers and workers unions, and higher profit margins. Ross Perot was right but nobody listened to him. Apple isnt unique, and this isnt the first time. Its systemic. So tired of the trope of accusing anybody critical of globalism of being an is…

It also spreads wealth. China lifted more people out of poverty than any nation in history, because of globalisation. Are you saying poverty is less important than workers rights? Economies develop. This is part of it. You’ve just had a “protectionist” President, US is worse off by almost every measure... as a counter example to your “protectionism is needed”

>You’ve just had a “protectionist” President, US is worse off by almost every measure... as a counter example to your “protectionism is needed”

That is not a counter-example to anything AFAICT. We didn't have a 'protectionist' President. We had an incompetent President, who faked to be a protectionist.

A real data point would be this:

https://imgur.com/a/q3GUEzc

The US had a decent economy when we had high import duties.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#515

Post by onethought »

spoonjim wrote: post #507
onethought wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also spreads wealth. China lifted more people out of poverty than any nation in history, because of globalisation. Are you saying poverty is less important than workers rights? Economies develop. This is part of it. You’ve just had a “protectionist” President, US is worse off by almost every measure... as a counter example to your “protectionism is needed”

I don’t vote for a president to achieve global fairness. I vote for one who will make my life the best. If that’s not great for Chinese peasants that’s not the US President’s problem. China should develop its economy, but the US should not have allowed its corporations to have given China such a huge leg up in doing so.

I’m not convinced that voting for overall fairness (global, national, state, community) is opposed to making your life the best.

Those Chinese peasants will become the US problem (see the rise of China in the last 50 years).

Those Chinese corporations are what made “your life the best” with your cheap cars, electronics.

Your point sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#516

Post by ksk »

eznzt wrote: post #13

Why should I believe what the "Tech Transparency Project" (funded by Open Society Foundations) says over what Apple and China say? Honest question.

Can you please list a few news and public policy research organizations you find trustworthy? That will make it easier for everyone to reply to you.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#517

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

quasse wrote: post #249
throw_m239339 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations... I don't think so. Nothing happened with Tibet, or after the Tiananmen Square event AFAIK. 20 years ago, the people that signed all the trade deals with countries such as China claimed it would lead to improving democracy and human righ…

> the republic of China has never been more autocratic This is a more nuanced issue than it might seem in some ways though. I have some first hand experience since many of my coworkers are native Chinese living in different parts of China. Trade has enabled the growth of a previously non-existent middle class in China and they have started to assert political power in ways not immediately apparent to Westerners. One…

What's with illegal migrants and US? You're from Europe like me do you even realize we dump them to remote islands to live in shitty camps and illegal immigration is not tolerated anywhere in Europe? Are you clueless or intellectually dishonest? Either way it doesn't look good.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#518

Post by turminal »

Fezzik wrote: post #492
Judgmentality wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is what I dislike most about Apple: they're trying to be a leader, but are not acting like one. How is Apple trying to be a leader in anything besides profits?

Apple absolutely attempts to present itself as a morally/ethically superior company. See, for example, from just 7 months ago: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/31/apple-ceo-tim-cook-email-to-... Or, re the environment, from Apple’s current website: https://www.apple.com/environment/ You can find all sorts of similar posturing on a number of topics from Apple.

> Or, re the environment, from Apple’s current website: https://www.apple.com/environment/

Someone should calculate how much energy an iPhone uses for rendering that page (or any other on their website). I bet reducing that would make a difference environmentally.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#519

Post by fsflover »

PurpleFoxy wrote: post #505
fsflover wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also Librem 5 USA, but it's $2k: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ .

It’s not really made in the US is more that they inspect the parts and clip them together in the US and that costs them $1000 for some reason.

Did you read the link? It's manufactured in the US. The other version of Librem 5 which is made in China and assembled in US costs $800: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#520

Post by ksk »

esarbe wrote: post #408
f6v wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tyrannical dictatorship I honestly think that's a bit too far.

[flagged]

The US peoples voted into power a President who pardons war criminals. And the next incoming President supports (or has supported in the past) wars and bombings which cost the lives of countless non-combatants. Which places has China bombed? If the claim is China has lots its moral standing, then The US is not on any firmer moral ground either.
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