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Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#191

Post by nlitened »

baybal2 wrote: post #81
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations...

> I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations... Why would world politicians take any actions against China when so many of them do have a finger in the honeypot themselves? Invalidate stock shares* of all companies who made untold billions on China, and you will see that a huge doub…

What would “invalidating stocks” even mean?

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#192

Post by rhn_mk1 »

strogonoff wrote: post #123
jordan_curve wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comparison could just as easily be said to belittle what actual forced labor is. I don’t think it’s helpful to compare which atrocity is worse. There are many societies that have had lots of norms or laws protecting slaves from various forms of harm. That’s of course not to say slavery was acceptable in those societies on any level, but many slaves lived more comfortable lives than those who eventually died of m…

Forced labour in prisons is legal in the US right now. Equating forced labour as a whole with slavery, which is frequently used to refer to chattel slavery that existed in the US (HN audience is to large degree US-based) before 1865, may seem inconsiderate to those whose ancestors had to endure the latter. What is reported to be happening to Muslims now in Xinjang, with reeducation camps and all, is not the same as t…

> Equating forced labour as a whole with slavery, which is frequently used to refer to what existed in the US (HN audience is to large degree US-based) before 1865, may seem inconsiderate to those whose ancestors had to endure the latter.

I don't see this as a reason to cut off the discussion. Trying to distance forced labor from slavery may seem incosiderate to those who had to endure the former.

There's no escaping the inconsideration considerations, so I prefer to discuss the topic at hand without that baggage.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#193

Post by fsflover »

hertzrat wrote: post #117
delecti wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphone is your best bet with smartphones, but I'm not sure if there's similarly ethically produced hardware of other types.

How’s the privacy on a fairphone? The same as regular android?

You can buy Fairphone without any Google stuff: https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3/.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#194

Post by nomoreusernames »

alisonkisk wrote: post #152
nomoreusernames wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being sold at a slave market in the middle east, is quite different from being forced to work or being put in a detainment camp. a slave in this context has no human value. its owning a human being, not simply forcing them to work. it can even be hereditary. its practiced daily since a certain religious figure did it and granted his followers the same "right". (to own another human being)

Being a slave in China vs Middle East is not different in the key aspect that matters most. Perspecit and proportionality matters.

id argue there is a difference. i know im wrong though and there are many types of slavery. the reason i choose to make a difference between them is because ive seen both and i cannot to this day process what i saw, and the attitude of people. a slave from my experience is seen as subhuman. and when religion is used to justify it, its to me different from china. but i mean chinese citizens cannot leave their country and start a new life somewere else. so i think in the context of china you might be even further correct.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#195

Post by centimeter »

mgh2 wrote: post #133
daenz wrote: post #9

"forced labor" It's slavery...modern day slavery. Why are we mincing words? We stand on our soap boxes and preach about historical injustices and how we need to repair them. Well here is your chance to prevent a future historical injustice, and all it takes is for you to take a stand, instead of quietly consuming the products and leaving it for future generations to atone for methods by which those products were prod…

Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...

If I have the opportunity to buy something not made in China, I will take it. Unfortunately, it's essentially impossible to buy any consumer electronics not made there.

The set of things you can buy these days that isn't made in China is essentially restricted to luxury goods and safety-critical equipment (cars, guns, scuba gear, etc.); despite what they tend to say out loud, companies know that it's prohibitively expensive to get safety-critical reliability out of Chinese manufacturing. But if it's just your camera or power drill or whatever, they know you're not going to sue them when it breaks. Apple actually does a really good job on QC for Chinese manufacturing, but then you have all these accusations of forced labor to contend with.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#196

Post by jeswin »

LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I'm amazed the world isn't taking more action on China. Its quite sad really, 20 years ago, any one of the headlines from this year would have prompted sanctions and denunciations...

The problem is that Europe has no appetite for any sort of confrontation. Their leadership in peace and climate initiatives mask how little they're willing to do to address issues which have a potential body-bag cost. They have poured hundreds of billions of dollars every year into a dictatorship with no accountability and its military. And shifting all that industrial capacity out of Europe certainly made it look greener, with all the smoke out of sight.

If China becomes militarily stronger and Xi's domestic position weakens, war will be his first resort. If Taiwan had to be defended, there will be very little help coming from Europe.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#197

Post by virtue3 »

jvreagan wrote: post #171
sli wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forced labour in prisons is legal in the US right now. The Constitution refers to it directly as slavery. The 13th says "except as punishment for a crime." Folks may want to mince words about it because prisoners are technically paid (pennies per hour), if they are even getting paid in the first place. It was major news that prisoners were sent to fight fires in California for little to no pay. Plus, prisoners are…

Prisoner firefighters in California are volunteers that opt in and receive significantly reduced sentences for their service and often end up working for Calfire upon release.

they -just- made a ruling that would overturn this, but this was not the case until -very-very-very- recently.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/08/20/california...

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#198

Post by animal_spirits »

I have yet to see any actual evidence of forced labor in China. Only claims, nothing more. Americans have been fed false propaganda against communist USSR for decades, and I have a gut feeling the same is happening against communist China. Maybe it has to do with China's plan to collapse the US petrodollar global monetary system [0] and the US is trying to rouse a new Red Scare and push us into a second Cold War.

EDIT: Okay I've found 1 source of evidence from the comments in this thread [1]. I wish clickbait headlines would point to these claims instead of claims from other journalist making claims based on other journalists claims.

[0] https://www.lynalden.com/fraying-petrodollar-system/

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25570485

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#199

Post by centimeter »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #170
mgh2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans don’t seem to care, as long as they are getting their magic, nothing else matters...

Apple is Foxconn's biggest customer. But why not call out PlayStation and Nintendo and Amazon and??? The fact is - Apple fans aren't unique. Not many people care about this issue, unfortunately.

Aren't PlayStations made in Kisarazu, Japan? At least some of them are.

Re: Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor in China

#200

Post by colpabar »

lsiebert wrote: post #141

For people discussing the difference between forced labor and slavery, this document from the UN's office of the high commisioner on human rights, tracing the history of such terms in international law, may be helpful. https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/slaveryen.pdf

It's crazy the majority of this thread is arguing semantics.
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