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We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

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Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#51

Post by zbjornson »

adriancr wrote: post #42
raverbashing wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All countries are doing these groups first, of course Israel is probably the country doing it the fastest so I agree, we should see the results faster. And I agree with the topic, better 2 people somewhat immune "now" than half with the full vaccine immunity.

> And I agree with the topic, better 2 people somewhat immune "now" than half with the full vaccine immunity. the 90%+ effectiveness is only with 2 does, who knows how long and if it works with only one dose... it's likely not half and/or not for very long...

Moderna's phase 3 includes preliminary data on a single dose, and it appears 80-90% effective at/after two weeks. See table 15 on page 28:

https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/12/18/coronavirus-vac...

Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#52

Post by selljamhere »

dvivsivd wrote: post #43
raverbashing wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All countries are doing these groups first, of course Israel is probably the country doing it the fastest so I agree, we should see the results faster. And I agree with the topic, better 2 people somewhat immune "now" than half with the full vaccine immunity.

The CDC tried to have non-medical essential workers ahead in line of seniors. The argument was that, although more people would die (including more African Americans), it would even out black vs white ppl deaths metric. [edit] source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-...

I don’t see any arguments in those slides about trying to “even out black vs white ppl deaths metric.” Social inequality is one of several factors included in their ethical and logistical plan, but interpreting that as an implied black vs white issue seems like a very uncharitable view of the author’s intent.

Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#53

Post by helge9210 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #8

Israelis give shots to medical workers and oldest citizens first. This should drive down the death rate pretty fast. If this approach works, Covid-related deaths in Israel should visibly drop by the end of January.

> This should drive down the death rate pretty fast.

You can't drive the death rate that didn't rise in the first place. In Israel people are dying with COVID-19, not because of it. We are yet to see someone die from COVID-19 who is not terminally ill, fat and diabetic, immunosuppressed (after organ transplantation or cancer treatment) or very old.

Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#55

Post by outside1234 »

helge9210 wrote: post #53
inglor_cz wrote: post #8

Israelis give shots to medical workers and oldest citizens first. This should drive down the death rate pretty fast. If this approach works, Covid-related deaths in Israel should visibly drop by the end of January.

> This should drive down the death rate pretty fast. You can't drive the death rate that didn't rise in the first place. In Israel people are dying with COVID-19, not because of it. We are yet to see someone die from COVID-19 who is not terminally ill, fat and diabetic, immunosuppressed (after organ transplantation or cancer treatment) or very old.

Please stop. Having underlying health conditions that make you less likely to survive COVID-19 does not mean that you were not killed by COVID-19.

We wouldn’t say that someone with peanut allergies was killed by the allergy — and not the peanut — so please just stop with this propaganda.

Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#56

Post by alex_duf »

myth_drannon wrote: post #54

Canada is the slowest among G7. vaccines administered per 100 people: • Canada at 0.14 • United States at 0.59 • United Kingdom at 1.18 • Bahrain at 3.23 • Israel at 4.37

where did you find these figures? I've been trying to find some reliable source to keep an eye on it and I haven't been very successful so far

Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#57

Post by danarmak »

selljamhere wrote: post #52
dvivsivd wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC tried to have non-medical essential workers ahead in line of seniors. The argument was that, although more people would die (including more African Americans), it would even out black vs white ppl deaths metric. [edit] source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-...

I don’t see any arguments in those slides about trying to “even out black vs white ppl deaths metric.” Social inequality is one of several factors included in their ethical and logistical plan, but interpreting that as an implied black vs white issue seems like a very uncharitable view of the author’s intent.

Page 31, table row "mitigate health inequities" says:

An upside (green) of vaccinating essential workers (non-healthcare) first: "Racial and ethnic minority groups disproportionately represented in many essential industries. ~1/4 of essential workers live in low-income families."

A downside (red) of vaccinating adults age >65 first: "Racial and ethnic minority groups under-represented among adults >65".

The next page (32) concludes that "mitigating health inequities" (what the paper calls Ethics) is the metric with the biggest difference in outcome, in favor of non-essential workers. A bigger difference in outcome than the one for "maximize benefits and minimize harms" i.e. preventing the largest amount of deaths.

Of course, the presentation doesn't define how these two different things are supposed to be compared. But its recommendation is that "Ethics" outweighs "Science" (their terms, not mine), and therefore populations with larger ethnic minority and low income representation should be vaccinated ahead of those at higher risk from the disease.

Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#58

Post by _Microft »

alex_duf wrote: post #56
myth_drannon wrote: post #54

Canada is the slowest among G7. vaccines administered per 100 people: • Canada at 0.14 • United States at 0.59 • United Kingdom at 1.18 • Bahrain at 3.23 • Israel at 4.37

where did you find these figures? I've been trying to find some reliable source to keep an eye on it and I haven't been very successful so far

Check this out: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

The sources they use to compile the data are listed here: https://github.com/owid/covid-19-data/blob/master/public/dat...

Re: We should administer Covid-19 vaccines as fast as possible, not reserve doses

#60

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

ars wrote: post #5

Summary: The title makes it seem like they are talking about medical professionals vs general public. But actually they are talking about reserving second doses for those who got the first dose, and the article says it's better to actually administer those doses, even if it means a delay on the second dose for people.

Thanks for this quick summary. I've got a pay-wall error and can't read the article.
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