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Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

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Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#21

Post by cstejerean »

ivankirigin wrote: post #15
bjclark wrote: post #7

I totally agree 100%. If I see rockstar or ninja, I skip right past your ad. You want to get my attention? Tell me you're looking for a professional, and you're going to treat me like one. I want to know that I get 8 hours a week to work on opensource. I want to know that you're looking for craftsman, not ego maniacs. Mostly, I want to know that I'm not working with a group of people that saw the word rockstar and th…

"I want to know that I get 8 hours a week to work on opensource" You wouldn't work at a closed source company? edit: i read 8-hours-a-day -- sorry. that is somewhat reasonable. The unreasonable side comes from the inability to create hours. You can only add work. Side projects are always additive, unless you can stop work on a core project to do the side project. That's often bad for business, unless you're Guido. Th…

Any company that leverages open source software should make an effort to donate back to the community, even if the core of their software is closed source. Use Linux? Python? Emacs? Firefox?

Allowing your employees to donate some time towards open source projects is probably a good way to attract talent. Advertising for "rockstar ninja" positions is not.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#22

Post by SwellJoe »

ivankirigin wrote: post #15
bjclark wrote: post #7

I totally agree 100%. If I see rockstar or ninja, I skip right past your ad. You want to get my attention? Tell me you're looking for a professional, and you're going to treat me like one. I want to know that I get 8 hours a week to work on opensource. I want to know that you're looking for craftsman, not ego maniacs. Mostly, I want to know that I'm not working with a group of people that saw the word rockstar and th…

"I want to know that I get 8 hours a week to work on opensource" You wouldn't work at a closed source company? edit: i read 8-hours-a-day -- sorry. that is somewhat reasonable. The unreasonable side comes from the inability to create hours. You can only add work. Side projects are always additive, unless you can stop work on a core project to do the side project. That's often bad for business, unless you're Guido. Th…

Umm...Do you only work 8 hours a week?

Seems like he's saying he's passionate about Open Source and wants that to be part of his job, not that he won't work on anything else. There are lots of people in the world who've learned that working on proprietary code means you say "goodbye" to it when you leave the company, whether you like it or not, and want to make sure they don't have to do that in the future. They've also learned that wholly proprietary companies are sometimes bitches about contributing to Open Source software even outside of business hours and on your own time and equipment!

If you're working for a company on Open Source software, you get to keep tabs on that code for the rest of your days, sending patches, if you like, etc. It's a major selling point for some of the best developers I've ever known--in fact, the very best developers I've known generally work on only Open Source software (so I'm excluding myself from this categorization of "very best", since I work on some proprietary software in addition to my predominantly Open Source work).

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#23

Post by ivankirigin »

SwellJoe wrote: post #22
ivankirigin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I want to know that I get 8 hours a week to work on opensource" You wouldn't work at a closed source company? edit: i read 8-hours-a-day -- sorry. that is somewhat reasonable. The unreasonable side comes from the inability to create hours. You can only add work. Side projects are always additive, unless you can stop work on a core project to do the side project. That's often bad for business, unless you're Guido. Th…

Umm...Do you only work 8 hours a week? Seems like he's saying he's passionate about Open Source and wants that to be part of his job, not that he won't work on anything else. There are lots of people in the world who've learned that working on proprietary code means you say "goodbye" to it when you leave the company, whether you like it or not, and want to make sure they don't have to do that in the future. They've a…

My mistake in reading his comment.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#24

Post by ivankirigin »

iamdave wrote: post #20
ivankirigin wrote: post #17

I've found that the vast majority of functioning code is written by a small minority of people at the company. The current exception for me is Tipjoy. That's because I'm the only developer, and own 100% of both the angelic and filthy code. While the term "rock star" is a bit silly, a goal of mine is to grab someone from that 1-5% pool at a company that actually writes good code.

I don't think someone who simply rocks to the beat of chic and trendy catch phrases means they can produce the best code.

I wouldn't get so hung up on wording of a job post. Talking to someone for 20 seconds will give you inordinately more information.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#25

Post by sant0sk1 »

fortes wrote: post #11

I find it funny that, typically, these companies want 'rock stars,' but are unwilling to pay a commiserate rate. If you really believe you want a star, say John Resig or someone similar, you better have a kick-ass project and be prepared to pay for him ... otherwise, you're just hoping you can get someone good on the cheap.

commiserate (http://definr.com/commiserate)

     v : to feel or express sympathy or compassion [syn: sympathize]
I think you meant a "commensurate rate" :-)

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#26

Post by thorax »

sosuke wrote: post #9

I see some postings for code ninjas but where is all the love for code pirates? Pirates need love too!

Well, I wanted that, too ("Python Pirates, Arr!") But it has a little bit of a bad connotation. Sounds like people who steal code all the time.

"Pirates ship it."

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#27

Post by kareemm »

bjclark wrote: post #6
zacharye wrote: post #2

A less-known employer looking for talent on a job board has very few ways to distinguish itself from the pack. Looking for a "rock star" may be one of the ways it tries to do so. Tacky? Most certainly. Effective? Probably not. I don't know if it should be discounted because of it though. The only way to truly determine if it would be a good fit is to talk to the company.

Actually, a really good way to grab attention is by not doing what everyone else is doing. So, NOT looking for a "rock star" would be a good start.

this is 100% true. when we hired a developer at edufire.com, the ad ripped the phrase "web 2.0" and said if you were interested in building a real business that would change the world, you should get in touch. we got about 15 resumes, half were high quality, and we ended up being lucky enough to have an amazing developer agree to come on board.

it's pretty simple: if you want to find the top 1% of developers out there, don't hire like 99% of companies.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#28

Post by SwellJoe »

fortes wrote: post #11

I find it funny that, typically, these companies want 'rock stars,' but are unwilling to pay a commiserate rate. If you really believe you want a star, say John Resig or someone similar, you better have a kick-ass project and be prepared to pay for him ... otherwise, you're just hoping you can get someone good on the cheap.

Work environment is also a big issue. I've known great developers (a few of which have written code every Python developer uses every day) who've made their employment decisions based on how they'll be treated, who they'll be working with, and with what tools they'll be working (and even what they'll be working on....Open Source development has a strong allure for many developers, beyond mere money). Aeron chairs have a reputation for being a "boom era boondoggle", but if you don't provide a good chair, you won't keep a good developer sitting for long. Great recent hardware to work on is a given. Big monitors, a given. Whatever software and hardware they need to be comfortable: trackball or fancy mouse, weird keyboard, monitor stand, etc. Likewise for snacks and their favorite beverages.

As a startup, I'm running cheap. But, when it comes time to hire folks, I'm stocking the damned fridge with the best stuff money can buy, buying great chairs and huge monitors, and anything else I can to make working for me and with me the best work experience of their lives. Even if it costs $5000-$7500 right off the bat to equip a developer, that's chump change compared to the opportunity cost of hiring a new one to replace him if he leaves. And it's a small percentage of their total compensation package. (And we have that wonderfully alluring Open Source thing going for us, so we won't lose folks just because they don't get to see their code set free.)

Reckon we could hire Resig? I hear he likes Perl.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#29

Post by andrewparker »

nickb wrote: post #13

"ROCK STAR Developer" is probably a synonym for an underpaid, overworked developers ;). They can't pay you with money so they pay you with empty superlatives.

Meh... after working with a team of 20 developers for a few months, I could very clearly tell you who are the rock stars and who are not. Particularly in software development, some people are just unbelievably better than others.
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