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Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

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Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#221

Post by onetimemanytime »

robbyt wrote: post #99

Dear SF, More apartments built will not help make housing more affordable for normal people. Learn about the NYC real estate market- even pre covid apartment vacancy was extremely high, and the true numbers are unknown because building developers are manipulating the market by releasing units slowly. With all the excessive inventory in NYC, you'd think that a normal person (defined by median income) could afford to b…

>>true numbers are unknown because building developers are manipulating the market by releasing units slowly.

Why would they do that? Not to mention that NY is kinda big for developers to band together to manipulate this. My guess is that developers try to sell/rent units as fast as they can....and faster than the other guy.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#222

Post by [deleted] »

Joeri wrote: post #203
blueline wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore

Singapore relies heavily on cheap foreign construction workers. In order for that model to be applied in SF would require opening the Mexican border to allow for cheap immigrant workers to come to SF. That’s not going to fly for many reasons.

[deleted]

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#223

Post by daniellarusso »

jeffbee wrote: post #211
daniellarusso wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, rip up all the roads, start digging, and start upgrading? So, who pays for that? All the taxpayers, or the builders, or the potential new tenants?

Here's the thing: maintenance of existing infrastructure that serves existing residents is almost entirely paid for by astronomical "impact fees" paid by new developments. In the East Bay, 85% of EBMUD's maintenance (not capital!) budget is funded from impact fees. These can be really high. Any new dwelling in the East Bay pays a minimum of $26000 for water capacity and a minimum of $4100 for wastewater capacity. It'…

So, is the existing infrastructure well maintained in your opinion and adequate for existing use?

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#224

Post by bastawhiz »

runarberg wrote: post #219
fennecfoxen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear SF, More apartments built are the only thing to make housing more affordable for normal people. But, when you think of them, you're thinking way too small. You need to think in terms of, like, literally doubling the number of apartments available, and they may then be in reach of normal people once more. You also need to get yourself together and reverse that trend where your transit system has carried fewer peo…

> More apartments built are the only thing to make housing more affordable for normal people What? No! Rent control is among other something that can lower the rent for normal people. I know SF has rent control, but currently it only applies as long as you don’t move.

Rent control stops rent from going up, but how does it make rent go down?

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#225

Post by technofiend »

onei wrote: post #187
aqme28 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider Tokyo. They have kept supply up with demand, and as a result prices have stayed relatively flat. https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-housing-crisis-in-japan-ho...

Isn't it common for Japanese apartments to be super tiny though? As in enough space for a mattress and not much more.

I'm no expert, just a virtual tourist via YouTube.

According to (1) average Tokyo apartment size is 20 square meters or a little over 400 square feet vs 700 square feet in San Francisco as found from a quick Google search.

Considering some Japanese rent and live in Cyber cafe cubes that are even smaller I'm not sure how fair a comparison really is between the two. Japan in particular seems to have small appliances geared towards smaller footprint apartments.

https://www.all-about-teaching-english-in-japan.com/Tokyoapa...

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#226

Post by imtringued »

sokoloff wrote: post #149
mywittyname wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the market will bare $3,100 for an apartment, then land lords will only get $3,100 for an apartment, regardless of the taxes owed.

If the market will only bear $3100/mo for an apartment today, that's in part because some less desirable apartment is renting for $3000/mo and that might be the case because that landlord can break even on cashflow and bank on the appreciation. Institute an LVT and those competing landlords may become cashflow negative, forcing some of those units off the rental market entirely (typically to sales to owner-occupants,…

>Institute an LVT and those competing landlords may become cashflow negative, forcing some of those units off the rental market entirely (typically to sales to owner-occupants, sometimes to landlords with better financing or lower overheads, sometimes to short-term rentals or other higher cashflow uses).

Well, LVT is always meant to be a replacement for conventional property taxes so depending on how it is implemented it can be roughly the same as the previous property tax or it could be significantly lower because only the land is taxed and not the whole property.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#227

Post by daniellarusso »

epistasis wrote: post #215
daniellarusso wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, rip up all the roads, start digging, and start upgrading? So, who pays for that? All the taxpayers, or the builders, or the potential new tenants?

I'll tell you who won't pay for it: existing homeowners, because they rely on new buildings' property taxes for anything to work. And in SF, they rely on payroll taxes from high income earners. And in SF, the "dig once" policy means that anytime something substantial is done, nearly everything is redone, which is why Van Ness has been under construction for sooooo long: utilities. The property wealth in SF appreciate…

This was the most cogent response.

Appreciated.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#228

Post by thatfrenchguy »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #78
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>will try and sell you on a “kitchen” that is a mini-fridge, tiny sink, microwave and a hot plate whilst still charging you full rent. To be fair, that is a Kitchen to a great number of people on this planet. I shared a mini fridge, tiny sink, and a hot plate with 2 other roommates when I lived in Paris for a few months and the rent was not cheap their either. Was about 2,000 Euros/mo 15 years ago iirc.

Yeah, Paris aint cheap. Most big European cities have huge rents as well but no Bay Area salaries to make up for it.

Yeah but you can buy an apartment 25 miles / 30 min from the city center with a minimum wage salary (I know, I have friends who did it). Try doing that in the Bay.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#229

Post by Vaslo »

runarberg wrote: post #219
fennecfoxen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear SF, More apartments built are the only thing to make housing more affordable for normal people. But, when you think of them, you're thinking way too small. You need to think in terms of, like, literally doubling the number of apartments available, and they may then be in reach of normal people once more. You also need to get yourself together and reverse that trend where your transit system has carried fewer peo…

> More apartments built are the only thing to make housing more affordable for normal people What? No! Rent control is among other something that can lower the rent for normal people. I know SF has rent control, but currently it only applies as long as you don’t move.

Maybe we should let government set pricing for everything then if rent control is so good.

Re: Average Rent in San Francisco Has Dropped $1k This Year

#230

Post by fennecfoxen »

blueline wrote: post #151
fennecfoxen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, it's been a while since I left Potrero Hill, but I think that I heard the feds had taken over the public housing projects on the south side (you know, back where OJ Simpson grew up) because they were basically uninhabitable. What's the status on that? But you know, that's last generation projects. What's the status on today's "affordable housing" projects? Oh, you say it costs $750,000 in construction costs…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore

That article puts the price of a new 5-room apartment in 2010 at $448,700 Singapore dollars (USD $337,000 at today's exchange rate). That's about 50% of the NYT's cited 2BR=USD$750k that doesn't even include the price of the land.

San Francisco as a political entity has neither the will nor the project management capacity to build anything at reasonable prices.

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