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FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

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Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#141

Post by dasudasu »

Digit-Al wrote: post #76
C4K3 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. If you support such legislation, consider supporting lobbying groups such as American Citizens Abroad https://www.americansabroad.org/

> A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. So let's get this straight. On one side you have Americans who think it's reasonable to tax people who don't live in the country and thus don't use any of the services that tax pays for and then on the other side you have Americans who believe that all tax is theft under the threat of…

It's not true to say they necessarily don't use any of the services. The US still defend its citizens abroad, and might evacuate you in case some disaster happens, do hostage rescue using the full power of its military and intelligence agencies, and will generally provide consular help and speak on your behalf should you get into trouble.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#142

Post by nverno »

whynotminot wrote: post #138
centimeter wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the coldest and most confused take on populism I’ve seen on this platform (as an anti-populist).

Populism is cold and confused and often lacks for internal logic. How else would you describe it, Mr/Ms Supposedly Anti-Populist?

Simply a general mistrust of big centralized government doesn't sound so negative.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#143

Post by pmontra »

clubber88 wrote: post #130
voisin wrote: post #6

The US could solve most of its expat issues if they simply said foreign accounts are those accounts foreign to your current place of residence. By saying foreign means foreign to the US, they’ve made it very challenging to form banking relationships in expats’ countries of residence. The next step would be to repeal citizenship based taxation in favour of residency based taxation like every other country on earth (ex…

And take away their right to vote. I’m an expat and I’m not allowed to vote and I don’t owe my home country any taxes (Canadian in the US) That’s the way it should be. I shouldn't tell my home country how to live a life I have no stake in, and they should not charge me taxes for services they cannot render abroad. End taxation and voting abroad!

I think you should have at least some small amount of Canadian taxation and representation. You could probably use a Canadian consolate or benefit from or be adversally affected by some legislation passed in Canada (and of course in the USA.) Anyway I think it makes sense to pay taxes and vote in the country of residence, not in the one of citizenship.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#144

Post by samus »

hef19898 wrote: post #75
est31 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, if you are a male inside a certain age range, you first have to get a waiver from the government office responsible for the draft before you can lose your citizenship.

There are some citizenships you cannot loose, I think Afghanistan is one such case. And Austria as well. The latter are also really picky with dual citizenship.

Austrian citizenship is quite easy to lose: by acquiring another, which is in almost all cases seen by Austrian law as incompatible with the Austrian one. As you say, dual citizenship is usually only possible if jus sanguinius applies.

Source: https://www.wien.gv.at/amtshelfer/dokumente/urkunden/staatsb...

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#145

Post by spacedcowboy »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #120
NotPavlovsDog wrote: post #57

US citizenship comes with a big administrative burden even if you don't live in the US. Some parents with European citizenship sometimes do not file an American birth certificate when registering their child for a European birth certificate. I.e. if the country facilitates registration of child based on parent citizenship and not birth location of child, they just never declare the child was born in the US. "It was a…

>> Sure saves the poor kids the nightmare of not being able to open a bank account abroad, as a US citizen. You save them nothing, soon or later Uncle Sam will crunch numbers and discover that the German version of John Doe is an American, as far as IRS is concerned. USA can solve the problems for 99.99% of expats and accidental Americans by making laws for those with $million+ salaries /assets. They gain nothing by…

I used to own a company in the UK, which was bought by Apple and part of the purchase agreement was that I and the other company partner[] move to Cupertino.

Owning a company meant actually submitting forms to the Inland Revenue (the UK equivalent of the IRS) every year, and it was sufficiently a hassle that we paid an accountant to do it.

Fast forward to a few years after the move to the US, and the IR are still sending me forms every year to fill out about my income in the UK. Eventually I tire of this yearly ritual, so I just drew a diagonal line over every single page of the return, put a big fat '0' in the last entry, and in the comments at the end I wrote

"I live in the US. I have lived in the US for the past 5 years. I do not have any immediate plans to return to the UK, so this is a waste of your time and mine. Please. Stop."

I wasn't actually expecting it to stop... But a month or few later I got a letter from them saying that they took note of my comments, would stop sending me yearly forms, warning me that if I returned to live in the UK, they would expect me to notify them "perhaps more politely". At which point I sort of felt guilty letting the frustration spill out onto the form...

[] Before we were bought, we travelled yearly to the US (in part to see Apple). Most times, in the Bay Area, we stayed in Sausalito just over the bay from San Francisco, and caught a ferry to SF in the morning. String in the sunlight on a ferry with a Danish pastry is an excellent way to commute, and we typically stayed in 'Hotel Sausalito' (interesting fact: a converted brothel).

Early on in this series of yearly events we arrive (for Java-one this time), and John (not his real name) walks into the reception and proclaims "I am John and this is my partner ". They booked us into a single room with a queen bed. Both being owners we generally shared a room on these trips (small company finances can be brutal), but never actually a bed. The hotel didn't have any two-bed rooms left, and there'd been a mix-up with the booking, but eventually they gave us another room for 1/2 the price, which was an acceptable compromise :)

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#146

Post by dragandj »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #129
dragandj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, isn't there a poverty-line amount in USA that makes some income level practically tax-free (through deductions, etc.)? I imagine that in most countries $15.000 / year is a rich person's income, while in USA it puts you under "starving". What I want to say, if you're living in, say, Kazakhstan, earning a good fat paycheck of $1000 a month and living like a king, shouldn't you file "I'm starving poor at $12000" t…

Kazakhstan is not a cheap country, at least not the cities of Almaty and Astana where foreigners are likely to live. They regularly appear on "Most expensive cities" lists. Social Security and Medicare is paid by American workers regardless of their total income. That is, there is no poverty limit under which they do not have to send that money to the IRS.

According to google, the average salary in Kazakhstan is 212894 KZT/month, which is $500. How much does an American worker making $500/month have to pay to the IRS for SS and Medicare?

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#147

Post by spacedcowboy »

Someone wrote: post #127
happynacho wrote: post #95

I would love if there was an option to buy their citizenship for that $2350 fee, hell even double would be a no-brainer. Strange how some people want to get rid of it and how others want it no matter what.

That $2350 fee is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg. Asking to become a non-American also is an admission that you know you are an American. https://americansoverseas.org/en/how-to-renounce-us-citizens... : “Renouncing your U.S. citizenship will not automatically cancel your tax obligations. Prior obligations remain, so you would only be a non-resident on an ongoing basis. You must notify the IRS of the change i…

Small correction. You pay it on the gain on your assets. It is, for example, any increase on your house value that matters, not the value itself.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#148

Post by j4yav »

centimeter wrote: post #113
Digit-Al wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. So let's get this straight. On one side you have Americans who think it's reasonable to tax people who don't live in the country and thus don't use any of the services that tax pays for and then on the other side you have Americans who believe that all tax is theft under the threat of…

Turns out that when you have 330M people with completely incompatible ethnocultural backgrounds, you end up with an untenably wide variance in political beliefs. Europeans take note; this is where many of you are heading.

Isn't this essentially exactly what they for some period said of every new ethnic or religious group in the US going back to before it was even an independent country?

Catholics, Jews, Irish, Chinese, Russians, Muslims, Mexicans, and Italians have all had or are having their time of being seen an existential foreign threat, irredeemably incompatible and insidiously perverting the pure culture (at least by some), and that's just off the top of my head.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#149

Post by whynotminot »

nverno wrote: post #142
whynotminot wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Populism is cold and confused and often lacks for internal logic. How else would you describe it, Mr/Ms Supposedly Anti-Populist?

Simply a general mistrust of big centralized government doesn't sound so negative.

General mistrust is fine. I'm a hedonist liberal and I still want lots of transparency and good oversight of my government.

My populist friends and colleagues don't want good government. They barely want any functioning government.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#150

Post by nickkell »

throwawayiionqz wrote: post #77

The best way out of this is the EU asking for reciprocal measures in future trade agreements and tax treaties (fatca reporting, residency based taxation). If US banks had the same reporting requirements to EU countries regarding EU dual citizens accounts, this absurd situations of being denied banking relationships in the country you work and reside would stop promptly.

Why would the EU ask for that? They don't tax their citizens when they're not resident in the EU
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