Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

time.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 210 posts

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#41

Post by smnrchrds »

est31 wrote: post #15
gambiting wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's stupid. But many countries have similar weird rules about this. In the UK the fee is about £400 so not too bad, but for instance in Poland the only way to do this is to write a letter addressed to the current President of Poland and only they can grant it(my understanding is that they always do, it's pretty much an automated process, but you do actually have to send a letter to the president).

In Germany, if you are a male inside a certain age range, you first have to get a waiver from the government office responsible for the draft before you can lose your citizenship.

In Iran, you have to first finish your military service, currently 2 years, then apply to the president's office, which (almost?) never approves an application anyway.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#42

Post by [deleted] »

muststopmyths wrote: post #9

So, these people chose to keep their US citizenship, but chose to not follow the rules ? The woman was brought over as a baby, but chose to keep the citizenship into adulthood, presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents. Otherwise how are the banks finding out ? Why should she be surprised if the IRS eventually comes for her ? Seems like giving up citizenship is the right solution for these people…

[deleted]

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#43

Post by lemonspat »

icu wrote: post #23

The solution is to use your accidental US citizenship to your advantage. The US is actually a remarkable tax haven and has some amazing trust structures if you know what you're doing. For example the Roth IRA, will in most cases due to reciprocal tax treaties, allow for a tax free pension even when your tax residency is in another county. On top of the trust structures I've alluded to, there are few reciprocal data s…

Is the Roth 401k also then a tax shelter if your tax residency is elsewhere?

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#44

Post by erentz »

jancsika wrote: post #21

> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time unless they saw that citizenship as a benefit that outweighs the costs, or at least as a potential benefit…

I think you’re being a bit unfair. Certainly there will be some like you suggest but a lot that just never thought about it or as the article says couldn’t spend the money to renounce it: “in part because the fees to relinquish American citizenship jumped in 2014 from $450 to $2,350, a sum many U.S.-born people could not afford to pay.” Note when you renounce your US citizenship (as I understand it) you may also be required to pay capital gains on what you own as if you sold it at that time, the rules around this are a little complicated. So imagine you live abroad since you’re a baby, don’t speak English, don’t have a US passport, and now you have to pay thousands in fees and maybe tens or hundreds of thousands in one time tax to the US government to be free from their dragnet, plus met a bunch of legal requirements about having filed your tax returns for past years etc.

I can definitely see a lot of people would just ignore that problem thinking it’s US overreach and they are a citizen of a sovereign country, then low and behold one day it catches up with them at their bank.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#45

Post by elgatonegro »

icu wrote: post #23

The solution is to use your accidental US citizenship to your advantage. The US is actually a remarkable tax haven and has some amazing trust structures if you know what you're doing. For example the Roth IRA, will in most cases due to reciprocal tax treaties, allow for a tax free pension even when your tax residency is in another county. On top of the trust structures I've alluded to, there are few reciprocal data s…

> Yes, this is a remarkable pain to learn and administer, but it's all possible to do without paying thousands in ongoing accountant and lawyer fees.

Where does someone begin this process? A few starting points would be appreciated.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#46

Post by zajio1am »

eralps wrote: post #29

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary? If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my in…

> If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen?

You have a benefit of a right to return to the country of your citizenship and to live there. You also still could vote in a country of your citizenship even if living outside (not sure how that fit in US federal setup).

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#47

Post by bloodorange »

mantap wrote: post #34
jancsika wrote: post #21

> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time unless they saw that citizenship as a benefit that outweighs the costs, or at least as a potential benefit…

It's not easy to renounce American citizenship. The US considers itself entitled to taxes from citizens who live in other countries. Even if they haven't been to the US since they were a baby. If you want to renounce citizenship you have to pay up.

In most countries, you do have to pay for government services. Renouncing citizenship is not a trivial thing and of course most countries would have some fee associated with it.

One could claim "I have never been there since I was an infant" but it falls on the people rendering the service to verify the facts.

I can see why people are upset (and I don't like the warmongering nation) but many of these complaints are not really well considered in my view.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#48

Post by mcv »

abellerose wrote: post #22

I tried to get rid of my US citizenship while residing in Canada. I found out about the $2.5k and cannot pay that while I’m not in a great financial situation to afford giving away that much. Also I suffered conversion therapy in Michigan against my will. So I greatly despise the idea of the US ever getting a dime from me. Luckily my name is different between citizenships and I’ve not disclosed being a US citizen to…

Are you saying a name change might be the way out of this?

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#49

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #42
muststopmyths wrote: post #9

So, these people chose to keep their US citizenship, but chose to not follow the rules ? The woman was brought over as a baby, but chose to keep the citizenship into adulthood, presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents. Otherwise how are the banks finding out ? Why should she be surprised if the IRS eventually comes for her ? Seems like giving up citizenship is the right solution for these people…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#50

Post by C4K3 »

voisin wrote: post #6

The US could solve most of its expat issues if they simply said foreign accounts are those accounts foreign to your current place of residence. By saying foreign means foreign to the US, they’ve made it very challenging to form banking relationships in expats’ countries of residence. The next step would be to repeal citizenship based taxation in favour of residency based taxation like every other country on earth (ex…

A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed.

If you support such legislation, consider supporting lobbying groups such as American Citizens Abroad https://www.americansabroad.org/

Post reply on HN