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FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

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Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#71

Post by abellerose »

mcv wrote: post #48
abellerose wrote: post #22

I tried to get rid of my US citizenship while residing in Canada. I found out about the $2.5k and cannot pay that while I’m not in a great financial situation to afford giving away that much. Also I suffered conversion therapy in Michigan against my will. So I greatly despise the idea of the US ever getting a dime from me. Luckily my name is different between citizenships and I’ve not disclosed being a US citizen to…

Are you saying a name change might be the way out of this?

Yes, I have no way of knowing if that’s the reason why I haven’t been contacted by banks or the US but I assume it’s a good possibility. They probably just scan a list of names with birthdates. Unless you’ve already reported being a US citizen then they probably have an easy way of contacting you.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#72

Post by pjc50 »

ttul wrote: post #5

Why it must cost over $2,000 to give up something that others spend much more trying to acquire is a total mystery. Surely it does not cost $2,000 to make a note of someone’s ex-citizenship.

I wonder how different the world would be if it was something that could simply be resold.

Of course, that would probably result in the end of it being acquired by birth ...

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#73

Post by nvarsj »

elgatonegro wrote: post #65
nvarsj wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying it's all okay as long as you remain a permanent employee your entire life with a company owned pension plan? Is that a joke? What if you want to buy property, invest in a business, open up a private retirement fund, or a million other things. All of these are a massive land mine for any American living abroad. On top of that you have things like FACTA that affects everyone. This kind of stuff has neg…

Buying property doesn't expose you to GILTI/transition taxes. Neither does investing in a business. You just have to pay taxes on income derived from that business, as normal. FATCA can be completely nullified by not maintaining foreign bank accounts. Keep your money in the US, problem solved. Maybe that's not an option for everyone but it's still an option.

I think you have a very narrow view of an expats life. If you live in a country for 10+ years, it is impractical to not have a local bank account. You can't even get a rental contract easily without a bank account.

Buying property exposes you to capital gains tax, which is essentially double taxation, because the UK taxes the buyer unlike the US.

GILTI tax is limited to company ownership. Which is what hit me. I realize that won't affect a lot of people, but for those in the IT field it is very common in London to have a one man or small group consultancy. Because of this, I was essentially retroactively taxed on all company revenues despite not having access to that money (since it's in the company, obviously). Truly insane. Then to pay the retroactive tax, you have to withdraw money from your company which obviously incurs local taxes. Massive double taxation.

This is all the tip of the iceberg. There are many ways to get screwed as an American abroad.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#74

Post by walshemj »

TomVDB wrote: post #66
jancsika wrote: post #21

> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time unless they saw that citizenship as a benefit that outweighs the costs, or at least as a potential benefit…

Even if they were aware that they are a US citizen, it is highly unlikely that they are aware of the tax consequences unless somebody explicitly told them. In almost all countries in the world, there is no good reason to renounce your accidental citizenship of a foreign country and there is no point in going through the trouble of doing so. And that doesn't even take into account the high cost of doing it.

It might only come up in later life when the IRS come after your inheritance "sorry your parent just died - but that house they left you we want a slice"

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#75

Post by hef19898 »

est31 wrote: post #15
gambiting wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's stupid. But many countries have similar weird rules about this. In the UK the fee is about £400 so not too bad, but for instance in Poland the only way to do this is to write a letter addressed to the current President of Poland and only they can grant it(my understanding is that they always do, it's pretty much an automated process, but you do actually have to send a letter to the president).

In Germany, if you are a male inside a certain age range, you first have to get a waiver from the government office responsible for the draft before you can lose your citizenship.

There are some citizenships you cannot loose, I think Afghanistan is one such case. And Austria as well. The latter are also really picky with dual citizenship.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#76

Post by Digit-Al »

C4K3 wrote: post #50
voisin wrote: post #6

The US could solve most of its expat issues if they simply said foreign accounts are those accounts foreign to your current place of residence. By saying foreign means foreign to the US, they’ve made it very challenging to form banking relationships in expats’ countries of residence. The next step would be to repeal citizenship based taxation in favour of residency based taxation like every other country on earth (ex…

A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. If you support such legislation, consider supporting lobbying groups such as American Citizens Abroad https://www.americansabroad.org/

> A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed.

So let's get this straight. On one side you have Americans who think it's reasonable to tax people who don't live in the country and thus don't use any of the services that tax pays for and then on the other side you have Americans who believe that all tax is theft under the threat of violence?

Talk about extremists at both ends.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#77

Post by throwawayiionqz »

The best way out of this is the EU asking for reciprocal measures in future trade agreements and tax treaties (fatca reporting, residency based taxation).

If US banks had the same reporting requirements to EU countries regarding EU dual citizens accounts, this absurd situations of being denied banking relationships in the country you work and reside would stop promptly.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#78

Post by [deleted] »

0xTJ wrote: post #12
muststopmyths wrote: post #9

So, these people chose to keep their US citizenship, but chose to not follow the rules ? The woman was brought over as a baby, but chose to keep the citizenship into adulthood, presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents. Otherwise how are the banks finding out ? Why should she be surprised if the IRS eventually comes for her ? Seems like giving up citizenship is the right solution for these people…

"presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents" Why are you being so bold as to assume that? I'm not saying that either way is the case, but you can't assume that that's the case. Also, as stated elsewhere in this thread, dropping the citizenship is expensive. Why should someone have to pay money to not be taxed by a country they have no relationship with, other than having been born there?

[deleted]

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#79

Post by wenc »

jancsika wrote: post #21

> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time unless they saw that citizenship as a benefit that outweighs the costs, or at least as a potential benefit…

It's been my experience that most natives of a country know little about the immigration and citizenship laws of their own country, much less another. Why? They've never had occasion to find out, until they find themselves having to sponsor a foreign spouse or do anything that forces them to interact with the system.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#80

Post by hef19898 »

bloodorange wrote: post #39
mcv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Many of these accidental Americans really weren't aware of this. Why would they? They never received a US passport or any other official US documents, never lived there, didn't go to school, and had no reason to be aware of their unintended dual citizenship until the US started bugging them for taxes. Also, renouncing this accidental citizenship is far from trivial. That requires jumping through a l…

While I don't like that warmongering nation any more than you do, in this case, it is not a secret that people's citizenship can be affected by where they are born, their parents' citizenship etc. So, if anything, their parents are to blame and not these folks who had no choice in the matter.

Well, regarding the French citizenship, as long as the parents aren't registering their children born abroad at a French consulate the kids are not French citizens. Easy enough yo do all that later. And that part of citizenship is different from requesting passports.

Source: My own children, both dual citizenship, different names on each passport due different naming legislation for unmarried parents, one with two passports, the other currently only with one.

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