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I am lonely will anyone speak to me

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Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#211

Post by pksebben »

Geminidog wrote: post #172
pksebben wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This smacks of so much hubris. What you are doing is attempting to simplify and reduce a set of interactions that are so incredibly complex that you have no hope of understanding them in their entirety. Can you point out specific differences between the sexes? Of course. The problem lies in attempting to draw conclusions about complex systems (human behavior / interaction) that map neatly to simple concepts (how big…

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2017.181... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/014616720730302...

Awesome. We have something to talk about.

What these studies show, is that given a set of pictures with faces removed, college age women will point to the pictures of guys who go to the gym when asked to say which one is more attractive to them.

Sure, I can get behind that. As a bisexual male, I also kind of get it. People who are in shape are sexier, duh.

Without even digging into the pitiful sample sizes (n=61, n=131) or the fact that these studies were conducted on an incredibly limited and not at all random subset of the population (college age, at one particular college). The conclusions this article comes to and the ones that you have come to are fundamentally different.

This paper is drawing conclusions about specific, visual sexual attractiveness, fixed for all other concerns - ceterus parabus, if you will. It assumes that all other things are equal.

The conclusions you have so quickly come to, are based on the assertion that all other things are equal. They are not. There is a complex system of other sociological cues and interpersonal relationships that signal whether you do or don't want to be with someone.

Think of all the other things you, as a male, might find sexy about someone. Are they into video games? Do they like the same music as you? Are they successful in business / art / a particular 'scene'? Are they smart? Are they bold? Are they funny?

What you have done, in essence, is to assume that women are simple, and easily understood. I would argue that this is patently ludicrous.

Merry christmas.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#212

Post by pksebben »

pschimi wrote: post #168
watermelon59 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of folks in this thread seem to listen to Jordan Peterson's ideas, which seem smart and reasonable but are actually very toxic. See my reply to the post you were replying to. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

I'm happy for you that you got over Jordan Peterson. IMO you drew the wrong conclusions about him though. From what I've heard/read of Peterson, he is usually correct in his observation/analyses, BUT only within the framework of very conservative role models. The point here is that he doesn't even add original ideas. I think what makes him so popular among his fans is that he lends scientific credence to embracing re…

Where to start? Besides that it's oppresive, based on bad science, reductive, reactionary, and small-minded.

Those feelings of insecurity are there because of a conservative cultural context, that shames difference and enforces conformity to an arbitrary norm.

Put bluntly, this system of belief will prevent you from learning real things about the world. If you constantly avoid genuine interactions with people because those interactions scare you, you'll never learn why those interactions are not actually scary.

I would direct you to Plato's cave. Petersen is asking you to take the shadows on the wall at face value.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#213

Post by laurent92 »

throwaway3699 wrote: post #145
laurent92 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same kind of experience here in France. I could only find 7 numbers, 2 of which for women only and 1 for teens. So I tried the 4 others and met answering machines such as (textually) “We are open Tuesday 5pm-9pm”. Needless to say, I wish they’d be at least open midnight-to-1am, that would be more useful, it was my peak symptom time. Even more seriously, it is really hard to call someone when depressed, let alone nag…

I'm shocked there are women and teen only lines. Suicide in men is skyrocketing and people just seem to laugh if you bring up points like this.

Just for historical anecdote, the ILO agreement of 1930 on banning forced labour had the same tilt to it: It was for women-and-teens. It is titled « Elimination of all forms of forced and compulsory labour », but excludes « able-bodied men aged 18 to 49. »

https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_norm/@declarati... Article 11, page 30.

We had to wait until the UN convention of 1957 to have a universal treaty on forced labour which included men.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#214

Post by watwut »

michaelt wrote: post #187
watwut wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how i could go to bowling league regularly and simultaneously keep full time job, be actual non absent parent for kids and maintain at least some relationship with extended family. Bowling social clubs assume everyone has a lot of free time, does not have small kids or offloaded all kids care on partner.

Many working parents can find ~2 hours, once or twice a week - especially once the kids are old enough not to need constant supervision. It's not like you're a bad parent if you're only reading them a bedtime story 5 days a week instead of 7. Of course, there are still a lot of things competing for that discretionary time - exercise, or a job with a longer commute, or socialising, or working late, or professional dev…

Those social clubs took considerably more time then 2 hours a week. The aspect of it was that only one partner participated, it is not like they would switch. If one partner was member, the other got less me time.

And the other aspect that you unappreciate is that they were not time for yourself not time she you get rest and get to do what you want. They over time are another social obligation. You need me time on top of that.

Also, bedtime story is like 10 minutes typically. That is not the issue. The issue is that your partner wants free time too, so the sort of free time you have gotta be split fairly.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#215

Post by watwut »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #202
watwut wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how i could go to bowling league regularly and simultaneously keep full time job, be actual non absent parent for kids and maintain at least some relationship with extended family. Bowling social clubs assume everyone has a lot of free time, does not have small kids or offloaded all kids care on partner.

> Bowling social clubs assume everyone has a lot of free time, does not have small kids or offloaded all kids care on partner. Is this it? Widespread social isolation as the fallout of the two income trap? It could be.

One income plus social club still means you are not seeing kids much and your partner is basically single mom plus extra income.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#216

Post by watwut »

barry-cotter wrote: post #184
watwut wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am assuming 40-45 hours not counting lunch and transport to/ from work.I am assuming you shop, eat dinner, take showers and sleep. I am assuming that you take kids outside, feed them half time, interact with them, take them from kindergarten, ensure homework is done and generally raise them. I am assuming that sometimes you need to be alone and just rest too. You can't spend all the time in obligations only wit…

You’re just saying you have other priorities that are higher than having a regular social engagement. That’s fine. If you don’t want to do anything other than work, keep up family ties, hang out with your children and spouse that’s fine. But other people feel they can do all of those to their satisfaction and have an ongoing social engagement.

But that is what I says - social clubs as social engagement means that you require your partner to do almost all childcare. Like, you monopolized free time for own fun.

Most of what you call other priorities does not disappear if you don't want to do it or prefer social. If you don't feel like doing it tonight, simply, someone else have more chores to do.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#218

Post by jhanschoo »

brundolf wrote: post #127
theboat wrote: post #76

Sometimes it feels like we're in the midst of a loneliness epidemic, created or exacerbated by technology like the internet. But the data doesn't actually line up with that belief: https://ourworldindata.org/loneliness-epidemic It looks like we are generally as lonely as we were throughout the 20th century. Perhaps that's a sign the internet hasn't yet lived up to its promise as the great unifier. The fact that the g…

Totally speculating, but I think cultural loneliness may be rooted in individualism. Which isn't to say individualism is intrinsically bad, but one of its trade-offs is the devaluation of relationships, especially ones you haven't gone out of your way to initiate and maintain. Which is to say: the problem was never a lack of communication channels.

Japan is known for being quite collectivist and lonely. Frequently heard is of people feeling that they don't fit in society.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#219

Post by Aeolos »

pksebben wrote: post #211
Geminidog wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2017.181... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/014616720730302...

Awesome. We have something to talk about. What these studies show, is that given a set of pictures with faces removed, college age women will point to the pictures of guys who go to the gym when asked to say which one is more attractive to them. Sure, I can get behind that. As a bisexual male, I also kind of get it. People who are in shape are sexier, duh. Without even digging into the pitiful sample sizes (n=61, n=1…

Well said.

To add to that, even the preference identified in those studies is influenced by the specific societal context. Generalizing that to “women prefer fit men” is incorrect, because we know sexual preferences are heavily influenced by the societal context.

For example: https://www.medievalists.net/2020/06/fatness-thinness-middle...

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#220

Post by Scapeghost »

meh I've just about given up.

There's no worse curse than being born and stuck in a place where you can't find any compatible people let alone kindred spirits.

All I can hope for is running into someone like myself someday, but if they're really like me we will just turn each other off.

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