I am lonely will anyone speak to me • Hacker News Board

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#141

Post by pschimi » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:03 AM UTC

mechnesium wrote: post #73

DoreenMichele wrote: post #37

I've studied social/psychological stuff, spent a lot of years suicidal and spent a number of years homeless which was incredibly socially isolating and even negatively impacted how people interacted with me online. Some thoughts (intended as a buffet to choose from if it strikes your fancy, not a prescription for "the right way" to do anything at all): 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are despe…

> it tends to be the case that you can't suggest to people "You could try doing things differently" because that will be taken as blaming the victim Sometimes it takes a friend (or stranger) to make such suggestions. Lonely and depressed people are typically trapped inside their heads, so they need some kind of external stimulus to help them understand that they are in control of their life. The truth sometimes hurts…

I've been at crossroads at several points in my life and realized that I was in too deep to trust my own decision making to be sound.

Getting on the internets and asking total strangers for their opinion helped me snap out of it. Even though I mostly didn't take their advice, being confronted with the aloof views of randos with no stake in my dilemma was what I needed to see the big picture beyond the walls that had already closed in on me.

In either of these situations，I'm certain a friend would have been either too compassionate or too afraid to appear immoral to give me the cold, hard truth.

Hooray for assholes that don't give a fuck =D

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#142

Post by pksebben » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:09 AM UTC

Geminidog wrote: post #122

pksebben wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements lik…

>but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. It depends on your definition of toxic and your definition of truth. The belief that categorical statements have zero relevance in this world is an ideal that is just too unlikely to be true. Broad statements can be made about both men and women. For example Wo…

This smacks of so much hubris. What you are doing is attempting to simplify and reduce a set of interactions that are so incredibly complex that you have no hope of understanding them in their entirety. Can you point out specific differences between the sexes? Of course. The problem lies in attempting to draw conclusions about complex systems (human behavior / interaction) that map neatly to simple concepts (how big are boobs?).

But, you asked me to define terms, so let's do just that.

Truth(1): Something that is verifiable, and by it's nature, falsifiable. If you cannot ever hope to disprove something, then you also cannot prove it.

Toxic: A pattern, substance, or behavior that has a deleterious effect on an organism. In this case, society as a whole.

and to define a term or two I think you might have gotten lost on:

Generalization: A set of conclusions obtained by inference from specific cases (e.g. I am not strong, and she doesn't like me, thus all women want strong men)

Average: A statistical measure equal to the sum of a set of scalar quantities divided by the number of said quantities (e.g. the average height of a male human is 5.7', whereas the average height of a female human is 5.2')

Nobody has all the answers when it comes to systems as complex as human cognition. If they did, there would be no point in things like markets, commerce, advertising, etc. Complex systems often display unintuitive behaviors. If you have women figured out so well, why don't you make a product they'll all buy? You'd be the richest man on earth! But, there's a problem - preferences are not a scalar quantity like height; they are far more complicated.

Something we can observe about people is that expectations can shape perception (2). Given this knowledge, one can quite easily infer that making unverified claims about the motivations of literally half of humanity is probably fairly dangerous - it has a high likelihood of shaping bad patterns out of thin air. Put more bluntly, it makes us all collectively dumber.

I do not have my head in the clouds, nor am I looking at the world with rose tinted glasses. I am merely pointing out that it is harmful to impose your (negative, uninformed, sexist, reductive) worldview on others, as we are all struggling enough to make the most of this difficult and confounding life we have without it.

(1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Truth

(2)https://news.mit.edu/2019/how-expectation-influences-percept...

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#143

Post by throwaway3699 » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:09 AM UTC

watermelon59 wrote: post #138

Geminidog wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. It depends on your definition of toxic and your definition of truth. The belief that categorical statements have zero relevance in this world is an ideal that is just too unlikely to be true. Broad statements can be made about both men and women. For example Wo…

You are probably not wrong in your statements about biology influencing behavior, but in my opinion that kind of thinking ignores the fact that we humans are capable of recognizing all of that and acting upon it. We do not have to succumb to our natural baggage. The problem with making and accepting general statements about the behavior of men and women is that it leads to an incredibly exclusionary society where onl…

Obviously you have more insight into your specific situation than I do, but I don't think Jordan Peterson's ideas are in conflict with your lifestyle.

The 12 rules don't preach that you be a Manly Man TM, but about taking responsibility for your own life, something which applies to both genders. -- JP and his book have plenty of female fans too.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#144

Post by throwaway3699 » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:12 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #120

cubano wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like what in life that's worth a shit don't take some effort? Being lonely sucks yeah...but take at least a bit of responsibility for it and realize that people make major changes in their lives every-damn-day. Heroin addicts get clean EVERYDAY...you think being lonely is worse than kicking that shit? Guess what...you're wrong if you do. Take small steps. Smile more. Be interested in others. You can do it for sure.

>Smile more No one should be seeing an uncovered face until the whole world is vaccinated.

Oh, cmon...

Most of the world won't be offered the vaccine for at least a year.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#145

Post by throwaway3699 » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:17 AM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #17

warent wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a younger going through a very painful time there was a brief period of suicidal ideation and the suicide hotline would have been a very useful resource for me. I didn't know about it at the time, so I just called 911, and they were very kind to me but their response was absolutely awful. It was pretty clear they weren't trained for such conversations, and just send the police to pick me up. The police! Fo…

Same kind of experience here in France. I could only find 7 numbers, 2 of which for women only and 1 for teens. So I tried the 4 others and met answering machines such as (textually) “We are open Tuesday 5pm-9pm”. Needless to say, I wish they’d be at least open midnight-to-1am, that would be more useful, it was my peak symptom time. Even more seriously, it is really hard to call someone when depressed, let alone nag…

I'm shocked there are women and teen only lines. Suicide in men is skyrocketing and people just seem to laugh if you bring up points like this.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#146

Post by nicbou » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:17 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #37

I've studied social/psychological stuff, spent a lot of years suicidal and spent a number of years homeless which was incredibly socially isolating and even negatively impacted how people interacted with me online. Some thoughts (intended as a buffet to choose from if it strikes your fancy, not a prescription for "the right way" to do anything at all): 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are despe…

I think #4 can be explained by a simple phenomenon: if a group is defined by people's desire to leave it, it will eventually be populated mostly by those who can't.

This is how many such communities become toxic over time.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#147

Post by watwut » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:18 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #140

brundolf wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally speculating, but I think cultural loneliness may be rooted in individualism. Which isn't to say individualism is intrinsically bad, but one of its trade-offs is the devaluation of relationships, especially ones you haven't gone out of your way to initiate and maintain. Which is to say: the problem was never a lack of communication channels.

I think there's something to what you're saying but the terms are slightly wrong. Individualism is ordinarily set in opposition to collectivism, but it's the bastardization of both that have created the problem. On the one hand, social clubs have been evaporating. Bowling leagues, rotary clubs, ham radio clubs etc. They're fading, and this predates 2020. These things are compatible with individualism -- it's freedom…

I don't see how i could go to bowling league regularly and simultaneously keep full time job, be actual non absent parent for kids and maintain at least some relationship with extended family.

Bowling social clubs assume everyone has a lot of free time, does not have small kids or offloaded all kids care on partner.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#148

Post by pksebben » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:20 AM UTC

watermelon59 wrote: post #139

pksebben wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements lik…

A number of folks in this thread seem to listen to Jordan Peterson's ideas, which seem smart and reasonable but are actually very toxic. See my reply to the post you were replying to. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

My pleasure. We do indeed have a pretty serious cultural problem, and it's not made any better by closing ourselves off to the wealth of possibility that lies in human interaction. I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of those who feel they've been given the cold shoulder - but hurt people hurt people, so it's important for a community to isolate and identify that damage. Dumbing things down is not the way.

Happy holidays to you and yours!

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#149

Post by watwut » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:25 AM UTC

tonymet wrote: post #7

dhaivat wrote: post #4

It goes without saying that this year has been really difficult for most if not all of us. Not being able to see extended family especially during holiday season can feel lonely and depressing. Please, please, please don't make this a solo suffering, use FaceTime, Xoom, WhatsApp, Meet whatever to talk to friends/family if you can. If things feel worse - don't keep it to yourself, for those in the US - 1-800-273-8255'…

Does this number actually help? It’s shared kind of automatically but I find it trivializes suicide

Afaik, number of suicides went down and number of calls went up when they first time started to put that thing under articles about suicide.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#150

Post by Akinato » Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

hoka-one-one wrote: post #57

colmvp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are desperate and lonely and your life is in the toilet. Once in a great while, someone will be truly wonderful to you because you did that but it's usually counterproductive. I met up with a close friend a few days ago to lament how tough its been to live alone throughout this Covid period, to get rejected by dozens of companies while job hunting, and to do o…

Heads up, most (not all) women really hate seeing men complain or cry. I think most men who have been around women a lot understand this. It's just the way things are, it's not out of malice. If you're a man and you want to sulk with someone, another man or a therapist is best.

I agree. I have no problem seeing men cry, and I've held several whilst they did so -- and never thought less of them. Crying is a human reaction and men are allowed to experience it too. Crying doesn't make you weak, it's just an outlet of emotion that can really help clear your head sometimes.