Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trading Time for Money

nicolasbouliane.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 159 posts

Re: Trading Time for Money

#51

Post by forgotmypw17 »

drevil-v2 wrote: post #38
keiferski wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you’ve quite understood my comment. I am saying that if a significant portion of the population becomes able to survive without needing a job, the overall culture will shift and things that aren’t immediately lucrative will become more popular. Many of these things are fundamentally important but are brushed aside because they fulfill no role in an economically-oriented society.

Someone has to produce the goods that we all need. If "a significant portion of the population" is off doing leisure activities how would we survive? What about game theory in that situation, tit-for-tat prisoners dilemma? Why should I produce when almost all of it will get taken as tax to support the folks not working? Am I not better off sucking the UBI tit?

I used to make lots of money working on cmbs and advertising for oil mining. I spent my money on many a plastic bullshit. Now I make nothing writing foss and live off donations. I rarely encourage plastic manufacturing. Which is better for our society and the biome? I argue it is the latter.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#52

Post by forgotmypw17 »

drevil-v2 wrote: post #45
keiferski wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole concept of UBI presupposes that most jobs are fundamentally unnecessary / will be automated away by robots. Your concerns are covered in pretty much every article on the topic and I can’t really address them all in a HN comment.

Ok well that is science fiction at the moment. The way you are talking about it and sections of the internet talk about it, like it just around the corner. Alright fine, in the world where we have infinite energy and resources yeah sure everyone can go off and do whatever the hell they want.

But it,s true, most jobs involve wasting our resources on pointless shit we don,t need.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#53

Post by rubidium »

valvar wrote: post #33
keiferski wrote: post #18

Analyses like this just make me think Basic Income will radically shake up civilization more than most people realize. In particular, it will help divorce this ubiquitous cultural association between time and money. This reason alone may explain some of the hostility toward implementing even a rudimentary form of UBI. Some of the most rewarding human experiences have zero financial value and subsequently are dismisse…

>it will help divorce this ubiquitous cultural association between time and money I think this is naïve at best, and horribly misguided at worst. Time is money is not just a saying. The fundamental currency, the one thing that ever person needs and wants, is time. That's why it's so tightly coupled with other valuable things such as money. Time and money are essentially the same thing, though of course time is less f…

I disagree with the UBI suggestion in the grandparent (and so would pieper if he heard it :)... but your post also has a fatal flaw.

“ The fundamental currency, the one thing that ever person needs and wants, is time.” This is not true of those unfraid of death and at peace with their life choices. Some people reach this at age 18, others 85, and others never.

Being at the bedside of someone who is dying and at peace with it helps one realize time is not the most important thing.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#54

Post by drevil-v2 »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #51
drevil-v2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to produce the goods that we all need. If "a significant portion of the population" is off doing leisure activities how would we survive? What about game theory in that situation, tit-for-tat prisoners dilemma? Why should I produce when almost all of it will get taken as tax to support the folks not working? Am I not better off sucking the UBI tit?

I used to make lots of money working on cmbs and advertising for oil mining. I spent my money on many a plastic bullshit. Now I make nothing writing foss and live off donations. I rarely encourage plastic manufacturing. Which is better for our society and the biome? I argue it is the latter.

Well that’s on you brother. I like what I do and I like that I take responsibility for my life and that I am not handed anything.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#56

Post by ma-int »

Thorentis wrote: post #8

> By comparison, my grocery bill is 5€ a day. Do you live on rice and beans? That sounds like you're trading enjoyment for money. We (2 adults) spend about US$150 a week on groceries, and still eat out about once a week. Those groceries include three meals a day, with the leftovers of the night before being taken for lunch the next day. How on earth do people eat healthily and only spend $5 a day?

5€ per day is 150€ a month. I think that this is reasonable but somewhat on the low side.

My family of 3 spends around 100 to 130 Euros per week on groceries. We don't really are trying to save on groceries and usually buy what we want. We eat not much meat and usually cook fresh instead of using convenience food. We try to buy medium to high quality, local and seasonal food. So it's a tad more than 150€ per person but not that much.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#57

Post by drevil-v2 »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #52
drevil-v2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok well that is science fiction at the moment. The way you are talking about it and sections of the internet talk about it, like it just around the corner. Alright fine, in the world where we have infinite energy and resources yeah sure everyone can go off and do whatever the hell they want.

But it,s true, most jobs involve wasting our resources on pointless shit we don,t need.

Why do you get to decide what’s on the approved list of the things that we need? I ate 2 extra toast with dark chocolate peanut butter today. Certainly didn’t need it but eh it’s the holidays. Where does that fall on your morality chart? Is it the re-education gulag for me?

Re: Trading Time for Money

#58

Post by poma88 »

wanderingstan wrote: post #32
Thorentis wrote: post #8

> By comparison, my grocery bill is 5€ a day. Do you live on rice and beans? That sounds like you're trading enjoyment for money. We (2 adults) spend about US$150 a week on groceries, and still eat out about once a week. Those groceries include three meals a day, with the leftovers of the night before being taken for lunch the next day. How on earth do people eat healthily and only spend $5 a day?

The author lives in Germany, where food is surprisingly inexpensive even at good quality.

Fuit and veg are expensive in Germany, IMHO, and very expensive if organic.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#59

Post by robocat »

keiferski wrote: post #18

Analyses like this just make me think Basic Income will radically shake up civilization more than most people realize. In particular, it will help divorce this ubiquitous cultural association between time and money. This reason alone may explain some of the hostility toward implementing even a rudimentary form of UBI. Some of the most rewarding human experiences have zero financial value and subsequently are dismisse…

I know a sample of people on “basic income”: they are on unemployment benefits (or similar.)

I am unsure I see any correlation with higher output of culture, art, religion etcetera from those on benefits, even though they may have under-the-table income for necessary tools and consumables.

They often do spend more time on family and friends though.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#60

Post by keiferski »

robocat wrote: post #59
keiferski wrote: post #18

Analyses like this just make me think Basic Income will radically shake up civilization more than most people realize. In particular, it will help divorce this ubiquitous cultural association between time and money. This reason alone may explain some of the hostility toward implementing even a rudimentary form of UBI. Some of the most rewarding human experiences have zero financial value and subsequently are dismisse…

I know a sample of people on “basic income”: they are on unemployment benefits (or similar.) I am unsure I see any correlation with higher output of culture, art, religion etcetera from those on benefits, even though they may have under-the-table income for necessary tools and consumables. They often do spend more time on family and friends though.

The effects of society-wide basic income will be significantly different than just a small subsection of unemployed people. Especially when it comes to social acceptability.
Post reply on HN