Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

brianli.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 294 posts

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#271

Post by blymd »

smoldesu wrote: post #217
palimpsests wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

building a PC with name brand parts does absolutely nothing to address the critical factor mentioned by the GP: > Another aspect is that the audio stack on MacOS is truly outstanding, with a whole host of professional audio applications and utilities on the platform. Hardware drivers are up to date and also well supported. Connectivity is also well supported by audio hardware vendors.

It doesn't have to be Windows. Linux has had the superior audio stack for the past two decades, and it's considered the standard for most A/V work. Just as there are "Mac exclusive" apps, many Linux/*nix audio tools are never ported to MacOS (for example, the industry staple CALF tools are not actively maintained for MacOS). The larger point here is that the M1 is not as revolutionary as it's being made out to be. Th…

I don't understand how it's self-defeating. I literally work in the industry and shared my thoughts about how Apple Silicon is going to benefit the work I do. You can keep talking about Linux, but at the end of the day Linux doesn't have anything we need for the job...

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#272

Post by blymd »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #29
gamblor956 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample libraries are usually WAVs or (non-MPC) encoded audio files. Mac Minis simply don't have the processing power to handle the DAWs, which are generally CPU-intensive and can be memory-intensive depending on the VSTs or plugins used.

Sample libraries are pretty efficient compared to digital synthesis VSTs. They really don't hit the processor nearly has hard. But M1 designs that max out at 16GB don't have the memory to handle plenty of sample libraries, so I don't understand how a Mac Mini is supposed to be up to the job. It's not just about raw cycles but about cached access to the samples. The biggest libraries can run up to 1TB and you'll proba…

Actually RAM is not the issue. Most samplers only load the attack portion of samples into RAM anyway. SSDs are so fast now, we can stream the rest without issue. The problem has always been CPU-related as we have to set a low buffer size to minimize latency. The previous Mac minis we've worked with struggled with some of the more high-CPU plugins (VSTs as well as FX), so we had to compromise in many cases. I did some testing with an M1 MacBook Air, and it blew the old Mac minis away in terms of performance and stability. Very much looking forward to see how the M1 will be used in these live production situations.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#273

Post by blymd »

tomcam wrote: post #117

Great article, too short. I thought music union rules forbade the use of synthesizers that replaced humans, e.g. horn and string sections.

Thanks. I didn't originally write it as something to be shared, but I guess I should from now on. I definitely have a lot more thoughts about it, so might do a follow up in the future. Regarding union rules, synthesizes are fine but there are some "house minimum" requirements so usually there are 2-3 keyboardists and then other acoustic musicians as well.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#274

Post by blymd »

mehrdada wrote: post #74
Reason077 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you say, you're comparing a far higher TDP chip here (Ryzen 3600X/3700X). I don't think those can realistically fit into the Mac Mini's form factor, right? Surely we should be comparing the M1 to the "U" series Ryzen chips?

I was comparing M1 to higher TDP chips, yes. If you take TDP into account M1 wins hands down, of course (unless your workload requires more than 16GB RAM). The context of this post is specifically the price-sensitive customer, not a TDP/space-focused one (compare to this[1] for example, once you upgrade RAM and SSD, and install a decent cooler). You also get better I/O in the PC world. [1] https://www.officedepot.com…

Form factor is most important. After that, price. Then third is probably the cooling situation, though we can install some extra fans if needed. Better I/O doesn't really matter here as we only need 2-3 USB ports, Ethernet, and display.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#275

Post by blymd »

kabes wrote: post #17
forrestthewoods wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many professional audio software suites have historically only run on macOS. I think that’s started to change over the past 5 years. But moving from macOS to Windows is a big, big effort for most orgs.

I don't know how it was historically. But I got this typical thing where I think more software and gear will make me a better producer and thus I buy almost every big daw, software synth and all plugins I come across and have yet to find the first thing that doesn't run on windows (apart from logic pro obviously)

MainStage doesn't run on Windows, and it's the software all the shows use. Even shows that use Ableton Live for playback sometimes use MainStage as a frontend software controller hooked up via IAC.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#276

Post by blymd »

sneak wrote: post #5
forrestthewoods wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many professional audio software suites have historically only run on macOS. I think that’s started to change over the past 5 years. But moving from macOS to Windows is a big, big effort for most orgs.

Ableton Live, the only one used for live performance by any of my circles (admittedly, in the electronic music scene, not Broadway) is cross-platform. Logic Pro is, of course, Mac-only as it's made by Apple. We're not talking about an organization moving to Windows here, we're just talking about a single, appliance-like keyboard-input-to-audio-output computer for someone to play music on in a live Broadway show. TFA…

An ad? For what? Don't think too much. It's pretty easy to understand.

1. We use Macs because we need MainStage for these shows. 2. Mac mini fits the form factor. 3. Faster Mac mini means we can do cooler stuff.

Easy.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#277

Post by blymd »

marcan_42 wrote: post #43

They're going to have to wait until the synth industry gets their act together and ports to Apple Silicon though. The DAW/music ecosystem is notoriously bad at these kinds of transitions. Due to how VSTs work, if any of your plug-ins are not ARM compatible, you have to run the whole plug-in host and all plug-ins under Rosetta, with the performance drop and stability compromises that that entails. And a lot of plug-in…

Yeah, it'll be a while before VSTs get caught up. I did some testing with MainStage concerts using Apple's built-in stuff and my wife's M1 MacBook Air performed just as well if not better than my $4000 MacBook Pro. This is why I'm so excited for Apple Silicon computers for this sort of work.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#278

Post by blymd »

kergonath wrote: post #91
archi42 wrote: post #77

I'm puzzled why there is such a strong dependency on Mac? I mean, the M1 looks pretty nice; but if the author is budget constrained AND the hardware is too slow, wouldn't "normal" computers with Windows/Linux make much more sense anyway? I fondly recall how a good friend of mine was impressed by the compute performance of the Apple based workstations at her university. I convinced her to get a PC for the same cost as…

If performance is really a problem, there were faster Intel Macs than a mini, as well.

None in the form factor/price range we need. Mac mini is unique.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#279

Post by fartcannon »

ogre_codes wrote: post #265
fartcannon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dream that at some point, everyone will get their heads out of their asses and abandon this abusive relationship.

It's a tool not a religion.

One is a toy, the other is a tool.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#280

Post by cyberdelica »

gamblor956 wrote: post #218
cyberdelica wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even Logic started as a Windows-first DAW. I hate to be that guy, but your entire comment is full of wrong. Firstly, Emagic "Logic" started on the Atari and Mac OS platforms. I'm not sure when it appeared on Windows, but it certainly wasn't a Windows first DAW. The Apple versions of Logic were never "very much inferior" to the Windows versions. In fact, it was the other way around. > Indeed, the whole point of Appl…

Well, if you want to be technical about the history of hardware and software platforms in Hollywood, it was Atari and Silicon Graphics until the mid-1990s, when most studios switched to a combination of Windows/nix for their needs. Apple was briefly in consideration for DAWs/audio work in the late 80s/early 90s, until Windows DAWs started hitting the market in force. Today, most Hollywood composers use Cubase, which…

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong. Furthermore, I'm not talking about the history of hardware/software in Hollywood - your original statement was about the use of software by audio professionals. I was an "audio professional". I trained as a Sound Engineer (City & Guilds 1820 Sound Engineering, and BTEC ND Music Technology), and was there, right around the time period in question. I also worked in London's West End for years, which is the equivalent of New Yorks's Broadway.

I want to be charitable, and hope you're getting confused about the "Apple" versions - in that, you're conflating when Apple (the company) bought Emagic Logic, for when Logic (the software) was available on Apple Mac OS?! Either way, doesn't make your former statements any less incorrect.

Post reply on HN