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The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

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Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#241

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

dagmx wrote: post #227
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No drivers are needed for "common hardware", because iOS forced most "common hardware" to be driver free i.e. actually compliant with the USB audio standard. It is true that if you're (still) using PCI devices, drivers can be an issue, but there are several high end companies, including RME, with PCI device support on Linux. Ardour, Mixbus, Bitwig and Reaper all run natively on Linux. Yes, that's a tiny subset of tho…

A lot of hardware still has "drivers" (more just hardware specific software) for their devices though that only support Mac/windows. The bigger point isn't that audio production isn't possible on Linux, it's that you have to make significant compromises to make it work. I count switching DAW as a significant compromise. The cost difference between a Mac mini and Linux hardware of similar performance isn't worth those…

>I count switching DAW as a significant compromise.

That's why Ardour runs on more platforms that any other DAW, so you don't have to make that compromise :)

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#243

Post by erwincoumans »

marcan_42 wrote: post #43

They're going to have to wait until the synth industry gets their act together and ports to Apple Silicon though. The DAW/music ecosystem is notoriously bad at these kinds of transitions. Due to how VSTs work, if any of your plug-ins are not ARM compatible, you have to run the whole plug-in host and all plug-ins under Rosetta, with the performance drop and stability compromises that that entails. And a lot of plug-in…

I own some M1 and the arm version of Logic Pro X can load most x86 VST plugins without problems. A recompile is a bit more energy friendly but not strictly necessary.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#244

Post by wezen »

archi42 wrote: post #77

I'm puzzled why there is such a strong dependency on Mac? I mean, the M1 looks pretty nice; but if the author is budget constrained AND the hardware is too slow, wouldn't "normal" computers with Windows/Linux make much more sense anyway? I fondly recall how a good friend of mine was impressed by the compute performance of the Apple based workstations at her university. I convinced her to get a PC for the same cost as…

How much does it cost to build a Intel/AMD computer with performance comparable to a m1 Mac mini?

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#245

Post by palimpsests »

smoldesu wrote: post #217
palimpsests wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

building a PC with name brand parts does absolutely nothing to address the critical factor mentioned by the GP: > Another aspect is that the audio stack on MacOS is truly outstanding, with a whole host of professional audio applications and utilities on the platform. Hardware drivers are up to date and also well supported. Connectivity is also well supported by audio hardware vendors.

It doesn't have to be Windows. Linux has had the superior audio stack for the past two decades, and it's considered the standard for most A/V work. Just as there are "Mac exclusive" apps, many Linux/*nix audio tools are never ported to MacOS (for example, the industry staple CALF tools are not actively maintained for MacOS). The larger point here is that the M1 is not as revolutionary as it's being made out to be. Th…

In all my time spent in studios and live music in the past 20 years, I've never encountered an A/V professional using Linux. I don't work in video production but I know several people who do, and I've watched some documentaries on this -- in that case, the proportion of Apple machines seems to be even higher than the already quite high proportion found in audio. Never seen a professional or semi-pro using a Linux box. I'm sure they exist, but this doesn't track at all with what I know about this industry.

Sometimes a DJ or bedroom producer is using Windows. So it's quite surprising to hear you say that Linux is the standard.

Can you point me to any producers, artists, sound engineers, studios, or production houses that use Linux? I would love to know...

I have never seen anyone using CALF tools in this profession. Looking at what that does - the functionality is available in a number of rock-solid applications native to Apple (MainStage, Ableton, Logic, etc). So there's no reason why it would need to be ported to MacOS.

How are you measuring audio stack superiority? And in terms of "stack", are you talking about something separate from the suite of professional audio / MIDI tools that come standard on every Apple computer that don't seem to have any comparison on Linux or Windows?

Are you taking into account the availability of hardware drivers on these different platforms? What is your experience in setting up a Linux-based audio production system with a lot of outboard gear? This is one area that seems to be a major source of headaches and motivation to not use Linux for producers and engineers.

Even looking through the comments on this page - there's people talking about the difficulty of setting up a functional audio production environment in Linux compared to Apple. I've noticed this sentiment is repeated over and over again on HN (going back to previous articles on audio production, Ableton, etc).

This topic stands out to me as I've sincerely wanted Linux to be much less of a headache with audio so I can get off the Apple ecosystem entirely.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#246

Post by wezen »

someperson wrote: post #125
blymd wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software we use is only available for macOS. Also, Mac mini availability across the world is important. Lastly Mac mini form factor is perfect for the use case.

If you're interested, Intel NUCs mini PCs are available all around the world in the same form factor. They don't run macOS, so won't run your software though.

How does their performance compare to a m1 Mac mini?

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#247

Post by Roboprog »

smoldesu wrote: post #217
palimpsests wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

building a PC with name brand parts does absolutely nothing to address the critical factor mentioned by the GP: > Another aspect is that the audio stack on MacOS is truly outstanding, with a whole host of professional audio applications and utilities on the platform. Hardware drivers are up to date and also well supported. Connectivity is also well supported by audio hardware vendors.

It doesn't have to be Windows. Linux has had the superior audio stack for the past two decades, and it's considered the standard for most A/V work. Just as there are "Mac exclusive" apps, many Linux/*nix audio tools are never ported to MacOS (for example, the industry staple CALF tools are not actively maintained for MacOS). The larger point here is that the M1 is not as revolutionary as it's being made out to be. Th…

I don’t think you can run something like Native Instruments acoustic instrument sample suite on Linux.

I’m guessing they want orchestra sounds, and not just analog/subtractive, FM or other digital synth sounds.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#248

Post by simonh »

smoldesu wrote: post #217
palimpsests wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

building a PC with name brand parts does absolutely nothing to address the critical factor mentioned by the GP: > Another aspect is that the audio stack on MacOS is truly outstanding, with a whole host of professional audio applications and utilities on the platform. Hardware drivers are up to date and also well supported. Connectivity is also well supported by audio hardware vendors.

It doesn't have to be Windows. Linux has had the superior audio stack for the past two decades, and it's considered the standard for most A/V work. Just as there are "Mac exclusive" apps, many Linux/*nix audio tools are never ported to MacOS (for example, the industry staple CALF tools are not actively maintained for MacOS). The larger point here is that the M1 is not as revolutionary as it's being made out to be. Th…

How can the article be self defeating, it’s not really an opinion piece when it comes to Mac Minis dominating Broadway, it’s a statement of fact by an industry insider. How can that be ‘defeated’, self or not? What does that even mean?

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#249

Post by dodobirdlord »

nvrGiveUp wrote: post #238
dodobirdlord wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of the FAANG companies I can’t speak for Facebook and Netflix, but I can assure you that the engineers at Apple, Amazon, and Google have a broad preference for macOS and Apple laptops. Since the pandemic even the engineers using desktop Linux have mostly transitioned to Apple laptop + remote Linux server.

Software engineers are not Engineers if we use the strict definition of Applied scientists. Software engineers are forced to use tradition and Authority due to abstraction. I say this as a programmer.

Applied scientist is not and has never been the definition of an engineer. Dating back to the term’s earliest usage, predating both modern English and the scientific method, it has meant someone who designs and maintains complex machines.

Re: The impact of Apple Silicon Macs on Broadway

#250

Post by imron »

wezen wrote: post #246
someperson wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're interested, Intel NUCs mini PCs are available all around the world in the same form factor. They don't run macOS, so won't run your software though.

How does their performance compare to a m1 Mac mini?

Appallingly
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