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Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

bbc.com

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Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#61

Post by HuwytNashi_006 »

jeofken wrote: post #51
HuwytNashi_006 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about France, not Africa. This is basically the same thing that white supremacists say: "Europe for Europeans". The sooner there is no longer even a concept of 'European' or 'French', the sooner humanity can move beyond racist policies such as in the related link.

> The sooner there is no longer even a concept of '(Arab|Jew)' or '(Yemeni|Israelite)', the sooner humanity can move beyond racist policies such as in the related link.

Looks like I've upset the anti-Semites again.

Israel is fundamentally different to Europe. It is a safe harbour to combat millennia of racial oppression and violence. It must remain Jewish or our identity will be erased.

Europe has and will continue to benefit immensely from diversity and multiculturalism, and we must be actively working to break down the barriers to a positive demographic transformation. Enforcing historical birthrights is a form of explicitly racist discrimination against non-European migrants (being especially harmful to Africans) who disproportionately benefit their new nations and who are desperately needed if Europe is to thrive.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#62

Post by gnopgnip »

mi_lk wrote: post #4
jollofricepeas wrote: post #3

The US could learn from this but is far too anti-immigrant to do the same. Americans accept immigrants into their Armed Forces but regularly deport them even after they’ve served and been in combat.

> regularly deport them for what reasons?

In many countries work visas only last for a limited number of years, if you don't get married, you need to leave or you will be deported.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#63

Post by Leherenn »

afroboy wrote: post #17
HuwytNashi_006 wrote: post #12

So if you're an indigenous Frenchman you're automatically entitled, but Africans must literally risk their lives before being eligible? And people are celebrating this... Why should ethnically French have a greater right to France than newcomers? It may have been their grandfather's homeland but it must not be their grandson's if we're ever going to progress. We're better than that now.

France did that during WW1 and WW2 they fought that war mostly with North Africans specially Algerians and rewarded them with genocides.

There's a lot to be said about France and other European powers treatment of their colonial troops, but North Africa certainly wasn't the main provider of soldiers.

From Wikipedia: "At the end of the war on November 11, 1918, the French had called up 8,817,000 men, including 900,000 colonial troops.". Note that this includes all colonies as well as "French troops" stationed in the colonies (apparently half that number).

Another Wikipedia article cites around 270'000 people from Northern Africa among them 180'000 soldiers.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#64

Post by thefounder »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #48
ohmaigad wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using absolute numbers probably isn't the smartest idea. Canada has more immigrants per population than USA.

And that is their decision. I think it is best for each country to decide for themselves, based on their culture, objectives, history, and values. France has a way of doing it, Canada has a way of doing it, China has a way of doing it, and the US has a way of doing it. One size fits all is least applicable when it comes to nation states.

So a country made of and built by immigrants doesn't want immigrants anymore. I think that culture has a name: hypocrisy

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#65

Post by ucha »

pseudo0 wrote: post #29
kergonath wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this fast track should be the norm. The naturalisation process is insanely long intentionally.

It seems rather lax already, to be honest. France requires five years of residency, the ability to speak French, and a basic understanding of French culture and civics. That really seems like the bare minimum for the state to take on a lifetime, irrevocable responsibility for a prospective immigrant.

It's simpler than that in some cases, only 2 years of residency are needed if you're going to uni there.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#66

Post by Jacqued »

pseudo0 wrote: post #29
kergonath wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this fast track should be the norm. The naturalisation process is insanely long intentionally.

It seems rather lax already, to be honest. France requires five years of residency, the ability to speak French, and a basic understanding of French culture and civics. That really seems like the bare minimum for the state to take on a lifetime, irrevocable responsibility for a prospective immigrant.

It's not five years to citizenship. After five years you get to apply. Then it takes about 4 years of administrative hell (with some traps that can get you back to square one) to get there.

No one who is at all familiar with the French immigration system would tell you that it's "lax". It's generally a nightmare to navigate and it feels like it's designed to deter all but the most determined immigrants.

Source: personal experience with friends and my so.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#67

Post by onion2k »

neither_color wrote: post #14
jollofricepeas wrote: post #3

The US could learn from this but is far too anti-immigrant to do the same. Americans accept immigrants into their Armed Forces but regularly deport them even after they’ve served and been in combat.

The US has the largest immigrant population in the world and one of the highest immigration rates among developed countries. I resent how casually blatantly false anti-US comments like this get voted up without any data to back them up, almost like it's a fad to talk-down America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat...

Historically America has been very pro-immigration. Very recently that appears to have changed (that's the view from the outside at least).

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#68

Post by jpxw »

cpursley wrote: post #40
bmsleight_ wrote: post #33

As a person that leans towards socialism. I want to understand from someone who leans towards capitalism, the reluctance with immigration. We have people who will travel large distances for a potential benefit (i.e risk takers), who like the articles mentioned, are happy to work hard. This is the ideal characteristics of an entrepreneur or early employee or a start-up. More labour, lowers labour costs. What is the re…

The free market libertarian position is very pro immigration (open minds, open markets, open borders) for the same reasons you mentioned. I would argue that many conservatives aren't really pro capitalism when it comes down to the details. Also, I noticed that the more socialist a country leans the more difficult it is to immigrate largely due to the potential burden that person may place on society (they require you…

> The free market libertarian position is very pro immigration

On the condition that the welfare state is minimal, though.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#69

Post by BossingAround »

yodsanklai wrote: post #56
ronyfadel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is long for obvious reasons right? One needs to show that they have stayed in France sufficiently long to have had the “valeurs de la République” (values of the Republic) imbued in them, as well as speak a decent level of French and to have been well integrated in society. FWIW the overall wait time to become a French citizen is much less than most other European countries.

Once you are eligible for citizenship (which can take a long time) You must 1. take an appointment to have your document checked (waiting time 1 year) 2. take an appointment to submit the actual application (1 year) 3. wait for the result, 1 1/2 year. So by the time you are eligible, it can take 3-4 years before you know the outcome of your application. These 3-4 years don't serve any obvious purpose that I can think…

That's the real problem in a lot of EU countries. This, coupled with highly inefficient ways of delivering results, appointment dates/locations, or inefficient locations in general (e.g. you reside in city X yet you have to appear in person in city Y that is 200km away just to submit a form).

This can be especially heartbreaking when one has to take a time off just to appear in city Y, spend money on transport, and then find out that the only person that can accept the application has not arrived to the office, and so the whole trip was for nothing (personal experience).

Countries seem to have a hard time explaining spending money on efficient dealing with immigration. The whole immigration process is highly stressful even in the EU; I can't imagine how stressful it is in the US, which treats immigrants quite poorly (in my humble opinion).

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#70

Post by tuwtuwtuwtuw »

tomp wrote: post #38
bmsleight_ wrote: post #33

As a person that leans towards socialism. I want to understand from someone who leans towards capitalism, the reluctance with immigration. We have people who will travel large distances for a potential benefit (i.e risk takers), who like the articles mentioned, are happy to work hard. This is the ideal characteristics of an entrepreneur or early employee or a start-up. More labour, lowers labour costs. What is the re…

There needs to be a balance. Unlimited immigration is unsustainable (Europe can’t support 3bn people), so there have to be some limits. Also, I value my culture (not in the “food & language” sense, but in “enlightenment values” sense), and have no interest in admitting more people who don’t value or respect this culture. Finally, you need to correctly read the situation. Most pro-immigration people support it to lowe…

> Most pro-immigration people support it to lower labour costs.

Do you have a source for this claim?

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