Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death • Hacker News Board

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#91

Post by csunbird » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

TaupeRanger wrote: post #73

Why is this upvoted? I would expect Reddit or Facebook to contain these sorts of cancer treatment non-stories, but HN should know better. This is just like the other 3,000 articles you've seen toting some type of cancer treatment that either never sees the light of day, fails miserably and makes patients worse, or is not even remotely useful clinically.

Whenever I see articles like this, this xkcd comes to my mind: https://xkcd.com/1217/

Edit: I know the article is more than that, but I hope that this research can get more attention and they can publish a paper with more results.

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#92

Post by rmac » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 8:35 PM UTC

foxyv wrote: post #68

rmac wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loperamide (imodium-ad in USA) is a godsend for tapering off opiates. It prevents all withdrawal symptoms (aside from actually getting high).

There was a kid here in the USA who died doing that. Chubby Emu did a piece on him. Definitely check with your doctor first.

Thanks for mentioning this. Here is the video: https://youtu.be/ZeLsJ8xtuGU

Where he reviews a paper that shows in 2 males, loperamide lead to cardiac arrhythmia and death. The doses they took arent clear but it's in the heroic range. (50x-100x 'normal')

If you're desperate to get off opiates and unwilling to do suboxone or methadone, I'm not sure a doctor, if you can afford one, would even mention loperamide.

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#93

Post by dcolkitt » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

> In future studies it has to be explored, for example, how loperamide can be transported into the brain and cross the blood-brain barrier. Nanoparticles might be a feasible option.

Isn't the low-tech option simply to substitute loperamide for heroin, an opiate that's extremely effective at crossing the blood-brain barrier?

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#94

Post by timbit42 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

LinuxBender wrote: post #38

Is this more effective than blocking l-glutamine and glucose to starve the cancer cells? [1] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06e-PwhmSq8

Some cancers feed primary on glucose but some feed primarily on protein, and some on both.

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#95

Post by heavyset_go » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

wittyreference wrote: post #63

curious_fella1 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the comprehensive response! That was very interesting :) I took a Biopsychology of Drugs class in college and found it fascinating. Do you know of any good (text)books on the subject?

I'm a big fan of Stahl's Psychopharmacology. Since pretty much every illicit drug has a legal equivalent, but the legals are better studied, you'll probably find that a good source. If your primary interest is illicit drugs, though, I don't have a good suggestion - it's not the sort of book too many careers are built on.

Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology is also free and online[1], and written in a way that people like myself can understand it.

edit: actually only sections of it are available online. The book isn't hard to find, though.

[1] https://stahlonline.cambridge.org/common_home.jsf

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#96

Post by caymanjim » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #75

caymanjim wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of chemotherapy is untargeted. The entire body is poisoned, and the cancer cells are more susceptible, for various reasons (weakness during cell division, which they do far more frequently than healthy cells, among other reasons). Hair loss, skin/nail problems, digestive tract problems, etc. These are all fast-growing cells. It's almost impossible to target cancer cells and not affect normal cells, because canc…

Yeah, but recent trends seem to be toward more targeted approaches. Seems a bit odd to be studying non-targeted approaches if there are a lot of newer targeted approaches emerging and in research that wouldn't have the same side effects.

Cancer isn't one disease. Targeted treatments take a long time to develop, and only cure one type. The vast majority of cancers are still treated using a sledgehammer approach. I had lymphoma, and took both a general poison (bendamustine) and a very narrowly targeted monoclonal antibody (rituximab). The bendamustine kicked my ass a bit because it's simply poison. The rituximab hardly had any side effects at all, because it only targeted specific cell types (both healthy and cancerous cells of that type, but still focused).

The idea that there is or ever will be a "cancer cure" is a popular misconception. There are hundreds--if not thousands--of cancer variants. The more targeted the treatments are, the fewer patients any one treatment can help. It takes a decade or more and hundreds of millions of dollars for each targeted treatment. There's still an enormous need for broad-spectrum treatments in addition to targeted ones.

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#97

Post by LinuxBender » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

timbit42 wrote: post #94

LinuxBender wrote: post #38

Is this more effective than blocking l-glutamine and glucose to starve the cancer cells? [1] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06e-PwhmSq8

Some cancers feed primary on glucose but some feed primarily on protein, and some on both.

That is in line with the video I linked. They use drugs to block L-Glutamine and Glucose.

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#98

Post by radoslawc » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #82

endymi0n wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is just a view limited to opioids. In general, there is no shortage of compounds with an ability to kill cancer cells since the 1950s. The grand (and still largely unsolved) challenge is not killing them, it‘s sparing the rest of the body while doing so.

https://xkcd.com/1217/

I've came here to post this. Thanks

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#99

Post by radoslawc » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

wittyreference wrote: post #6

Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration via ATF4 activation. So, key points: 1. Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Is it because they heard there's an opioid that doesn't get you high? It only avoids getting you high because it doesn't get into the brain. IF you deliver it to the brain to treat a brain tumor, it will get you high. 2. Pat…

> I don't understand why identifying that loperamide causes cell death via ATF4 is even worth publishing.

I feel that there should be a special name for this kind of publications they are so common: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=cancer+cells+in+vitro

Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death

#100

Post by curious_fella1 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

wittyreference wrote: post #63

curious_fella1 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the comprehensive response! That was very interesting :) I took a Biopsychology of Drugs class in college and found it fascinating. Do you know of any good (text)books on the subject?

I'm a big fan of Stahl's Psychopharmacology. Since pretty much every illicit drug has a legal equivalent, but the legals are better studied, you'll probably find that a good source. If your primary interest is illicit drugs, though, I don't have a good suggestion - it's not the sort of book too many careers are built on.

Thanks!