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Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

reuters.com

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Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#151

Post by whimsicalism »

_Nat_ wrote: post #147
whimsicalism wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And as we've seen, sensationalists can get cult followings. We're talking about published research papers, not people posting stuff on twitter. I have not seen anyone get a "cult following" from a research paper.

It's common for researchers to publish a journal article in a more academic tone, then use it as a basis for legitimacy in public venues. This happens at both individual and institutional levels. Examples: 1.) At an individual level, someone might publish a study on a social issue that's important to them, adhering to relevant academic standards, then establish a popular identity as the author of that study. Afterwar…

Well, I'd be fine with Google putting its thumb on the scale in terms of how researchers engage in public press conferences/media releases/talk shows, etc.

What we're discussing, however, is "striking a positive tone" in actual research papers.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#152

Post by unishark »

daniel957 wrote: post #138
unishark wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are supposed to assume good faith about other posters though. And philosophy is (as far as I know) yet another male-dominated major so I don't get what you mean. Personally I think the flagged poster was just ranting about technophobia among machine learning bias researchers.

I’ve read enough of HN comments over the years and been in the industry even longer to know not to assume good faith. Sorry. Like I said, someone else flagged the comment, not me. As a simple example when Kobe Bryant died there were numerous comments on the post saying “Why is this here? This shouldn’t be on Hacker News.” (Even though he was an angel investor). Yet when some random (to me) soccer player died a couple…

I'm referring to the posting guidelines:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#154

Post by Footkerchief »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #104
daniel957 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is getting downvotes. When people say things like that, they’re usually racist and misogynistic. His comment was flagged for a reason.

An absurd and highly inappropriate comment. You’re the first to bring up race. There is absolutely no reason to infer that parent has any issue with race or sex whatsoever.

The original comment said "who think if statements are racist." That was the comment that brought up race, as a strawman no less.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#155

Post by aaaxyz »

jchallis wrote: post #146

Every specialty has taboos and learning what they are and how to avoid them is part of being successful with the job. As a physics graduate student I made an impassioned case to a high energy researcher that the money spent on high energy research was low yield and should be pushed to the biological sciences ... suffice it to say he did not take my points on their merits. Upton Sinclair’s famous “ It is difficult to…

Reminds me of an interview a cosmologist from my university gave to the CBC around the time the higgs boson was confirmed by the CERN. When asked about real world consequences of the discovery, he answered "None."

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#156

Post by mitjak »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #46

I deal with this on a regular basis in the research world, there is what is a really toxic and dangerous bias towards constructing the positive, i.e., making things seem, appear, and even fabricate outcomes that will be affirming of desired outcomes or other group biases. It is not research, let alone science when you are striking a positive tone, it’s fraud.

indeed. this just reads like managing PR, as opposed to working with researchers to i don't know, attempt to remove racial bias for instance.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#157

Post by cmiles74 »

_Nat_ wrote: post #54
nisuni wrote: post #13

And that’s why I was happier when basic research was mostly being carried out in public institutions.

Public institutions tend to observe the same policies, even when there's no direct commercial interest. For example, if you join a Math department and start publishing papers that cast the department's research interests in a negative light, that's often a good way to get fired. I mean, seriously, go ask just about any professor of any topic at any university if their field is undervalued or overvalued. They'll almos…

My understanding is that the Google is pressuring it's employees (who are research scientists) to refrain from publishing papers that Google management believes casts a negative light on a Google product. It's not theoretical, researchers are quoted in the article and papers have been altered.

I find it difficult to come up with an analogy from a public institution. What is the product the math department would be pressuring it's members to protect?

Sure, each department in a university believes it's work important. That doesn't seem even remotely similar to me as this issue with Google.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#158

Post by seanmcdirmid »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #46

I deal with this on a regular basis in the research world, there is what is a really toxic and dangerous bias towards constructing the positive, i.e., making things seem, appear, and even fabricate outcomes that will be affirming of desired outcomes or other group biases. It is not research, let alone science when you are striking a positive tone, it’s fraud.

That isn’t just true in the research world, it’s even worse in the corporate world. Something about human nature where naysayers don’t get much acceptance.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#159

Post by Footkerchief »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #8

Google is a for profit corporation, not a college campus, news at 11.

Propaganda disguised as research has historically been a source of immense harm to the public good, and identifying it is a crucial step to reversing that harm.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#160

Post by mrybczyn »

areoform wrote: post #153

Oh wow. Google has become Evil. Isn't this exactly what "Don't Be Evil" was supposed to ward against?

Well, "Don't Be Evil" was a very successful PR slogan. "Framing in the positive" in another context.

Once the corporation grows beyond Dunbar's number, it probably begins to look and act just like every other corporation...

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