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Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

reuters.com

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Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't talk bad about the company that I was getting my paycheck from Have you ever been in a union workplace?

No, but my work life was amazing. There are important things to address at Google, like not having enough sitting toilets for men (there's 3 times as much for women even though there are much less women in the office where I was working) that an union may help with, but that's different from the product PR.

My first inclination was just to move on but you didn’t post on a throwaway so I will take the bait.

Why do you think the toilet issue you described is a problem that needs to be fixed? My experience in every corner of life in America to date has been separated bathrooms by sex and the men’s restroom containing far fewer sitting toilets. We all know this is because women sit for both natural duties and men, generally in the US at least, only sit for one. This is so basic I assume it’s not what you are talking about but please correct me if not so we can engage on that front.

What I assume you mean is Google is 90% male and 10% female (no idea what it really is) and yet the bathrooms are 50% male and 50% female. You specifically mention sitting toilets which is what I am having trouble understanding the relevance of.

Are men regularly forced to stand in line instead of being able to walk right in and go? If so that sounds like a facilities growth issue and not a sex imbalance issue. You could propose turning some female restrooms into male but generally restrooms are placed far enough apart from one another that there would have to be 0 females in the area serviced by those restrooms for that to work. The presence of even one would require facilities assigned to females or mixed gender restrooms (a different argument I fully support).

That leaves your only other option as I see it for the female restrooms to be smaller than the male restrooms which is just ridiculous. No one would build the building with that hopefully temporary imbalance in mind and you can’t just repurpose half a bathroom as long as the sexes are being separated.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#33

IMHO, a scientist capable of striking any tone in their work, positive or negative, is doing marketing / PR work rather than science. There's nothing wrong with that. Just like any other member of society, a scientist may want to contribute to a (for-profit or non-profit) organization of their choice, be it for material or spiritual rewards. However, I think it's important not to get science and marketing confused. S…

When I was young and (more) idealistic, my department chair pulled me aside after I’d been dogmatic about something and said “everything is political... The sooner you realize that, the better off you’ll be.”

It took 10 years for that to really sink in, but I knew that every paper has an angle well before that. There’s a position of inevitability about AI around Google, and, to an extent, I agree. Unlike tobacco, alcohol, firearms, cars, fuel, AI is applied mathematics. It’s virtually impossible to restrict functionally, requiring macro behavioral constraints on businesses and governments that are very difficult to enforce if you want to regulate it. Furthermore, ceding the technological lead and removing the business incentive likely has defense (read: offense) implications on the global stage.

Some things are going to be hard to explain. Some skin tones, hair styles, accents, pitches, timbres, writing styles, etc. may have more/less separable entropy, and that’s going to inevitably make models seem racist/sexist for some applications. However, we’re pretty far from those edges. Instead, our model biases have likely been driven by our datasets, drawn from our coworkers, family, and friends. In this industry, that’s currently a recipe for over sampling in some demographics and under sampling in others.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#34
The “sensitive topics” extra review seems completely fair and obviously necessary. Anyone acting like that amounts to censorship in a private company is totally off their rocker.

This article seems really weak, and of course there’s the obligatory attempt to tie it in with Timnit Gebru’s resignation and her very inappropriate behavior, even though for all of Google’s flaws, Google clearly and obviously did the right thing both to disapprove Gebru’s weak paper and accept her resignation based on her ultimatum.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#35
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't talk bad about the company that I was getting my paycheck from Have you ever been in a union workplace?

No, but my work life was amazing. There are important things to address at Google, like not having enough sitting toilets for men (there's 3 times as much for women even though there are much less women in the office where I was working) that an union may help with, but that's different from the product PR.

There are important things to address at Google, being in bed with the CCP and facilitating human trafficking for starters.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#36

If the outcomes of research don’t align to Google’s business strategy, they’re going to get rid of the research/researchers. Previously, ethics was good PR; now, it’s a risk in antitrust cases. This will continue to ramp up.

You may well be right that this is Google’s current thinking, but it doesn’t look like a winning strategy to me. Once more, they are on the defensive trying to offer flailing justifications for an opportunistic initial move. Even if you don’t care about the ethics, or are on their side, I think you’d have to question their execution.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#37
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't talk bad about the company that I was getting my paycheck from Have you ever been in a union workplace?

No, but my work life was amazing. There are important things to address at Google, like not having enough sitting toilets for men (there's 3 times as much for women even though there are much less women in the office where I was working) that an union may help with, but that's different from the product PR.

I've seen these comments on internal email threads, but this is the first time seeing one out in the wild.

Still blows my mind people who make >300k a year can't be bothered to walk 100ft to cut a shit.

Re: Google told its scientists to ‘strike a positive tone’ in AI research

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that AI research teams are full of philosophy graduates who think if statements are racist

Do you have an example of one of these ‘philosophy graduates’ you’re describing? The only person I’m closely aware of here is Timnit Gebru. She has a bachelors and masters in Electrical Engineering as well as a PhD. If you’re describing her and her ilk as ‘philosophy graduates’ because they have PhDs, I think you’re vastly mischaracterizing their education.

Maybe your parent commenter confuses PhD ("Doctor of Philosophy") with a graduation in philosophy?
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