Gentlemen, we have come full circle.
Wait, we still need to add a cgi-bin to this
cgi-bin has been rebranded serverless: running external processes to the web server.
Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
341–350 of 573 posts
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#342As others have noted, seems reasonably similar to LiveView, Livewire and Blazor. I’m somewhat bullish on these approaches - server side rendered monoliths (Rails, Django, etc.) are SO productive, at least for the first few years of development, but lack of interactivity is a big issue, and this solves it well. However, another big issue is the dominance of mobile. More and more, you’ve got 2-3 frontends (web and cros…
> More and more, you’ve got 2-3 frontends (web and cross-platform mobile, or explicitly web, iOS and Android), and you want to power them all with the same backend.
RESTful APIs serving up JSON works for all 3, as does GraphQL [...]. This however is totally web-specific - you’ll end up building REST APIs and mobile apps anyways, so the productivity gains end up way smaller, possibly even net negative.
I bet someone will produce a native client library that receives rendered SPA HTML fragments and pretends it's a JSON response. They might even name it something ironic like "Horror" or "Cringe".
That said, an ideal API for desktop web apps looks rather different than one for mobile web or native clients. Basically, for mobile you want to minimize the number of requests because of latency (so larger infodumps rather than many small updates) and minimize the size of responses due to bandwidth limitations and cost (so concise formats like Protocol Buffers rather than JSON).
It is definitely possible to accommodate both sets of requirements at the same API endpoint, but pretending that having a common endpoint implies anything else about the tech stack is rather disingenuous. If you want server-side rendering and an API that delivers HTML fragments instead of PB or JSON, that can be done too.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#343Is this real?
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
>65+ above white wise men snobbery Nice! Casual ageism and racism mixed into one post.
Conventional wisdom is discrimination against privileged groups such as white men is less offensive because they’ve endured so much less of it. On one hand, it’s true. It’s part of white privilege which is tangible. On the other hand, however less often people in a privileged class are realistically impacted by discrimination, it’s still > 0.0%. Since it usually costs nothing more to include everyone it seems useful.…
Racist people like you make peaceful protests and working for change against racism so much harder. You're just out for revenge and your rhetoric shows it.
Edit: I've had just about enough of people using "white privilege" to justify violence and blatant discrimination because "they haven't been exposed to enough". Its just another way to justify racism. Plenty of white people live in poverty. Its not ok in either direction.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#345Most of the comments here are along the lines of: this is old tech! But this isn’t really about the tech, it as much a productivity hack that allows people to be much closer to that old fashioned concept of a full stack developer This is what has allowed Basecamp to create Hey with a team just a fraction of the size of their competitors
It's a productivity hack for companies that have more backend devs that strongly prefer ruby to javascript, like a presume basecamp team is... AFAIK this doesn't apply to the average web dev teams nowadays, most of whom never even used ruby before...
Yes funnily enough a Rails feature will only help those who code with Rails
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#346This is so exciting to see, especially for older folk like me. Almost 20 years ago, one of my professors told us before graduation that hot tech is mostly about the idea pendulum swinging back and forth. I immediately chalked it up to 65+ above white wise men snobbery. However, this is exactly that. We started with static pages, then came Ajax and Asp.net and the open source variants, then we went full SPA, now we ar…
The Rails people never went for SPAs though. Releasing another server-rendering AJAX thing for rails (previous was TurboLinks) no more represents "the pendulum swinging back" than a new version of COBOL that runs on mainframes represents the pendulum swinging back to mainframes. If this approach gains market share against React etc., then that will be meaningful - but don't hold your breath, there are legitimate reas…
Lots of rails back end applications power SPAs on the front end. Sometimes for good reasons, often enough just because it was more "modern" - but much less efficient in terms of programming.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#347This is so exciting to see, especially for older folk like me. Almost 20 years ago, one of my professors told us before graduation that hot tech is mostly about the idea pendulum swinging back and forth. I immediately chalked it up to 65+ above white wise men snobbery. However, this is exactly that. We started with static pages, then came Ajax and Asp.net and the open source variants, then we went full SPA, now we ar…
I completely agree with this. For reference, I'm a relatively new developer - 3.5+ years of experience in my first developer position. At the beginning of college everyone was SUPER into NoSQL. All my friends were using it, SQL was slow, etc. Nearing the end of college and the beginning of my job I began seeing articles saying why NoSQL wasn't the best, why SQL is good for some things over NoSQL, etc. Technology is c…
NoSQL is very much like the databases that were around in the 1960s ("navigational" databases, nested sets of key-value pairs). E. F. Codd proposed a database of tables (which he, a mathematician, called "relations") to solve a number of problems that these primitive databases were having, one of which was speed.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conventional wisdom is discrimination against privileged groups such as white men is less offensive because they’ve endured so much less of it. On one hand, it’s true. It’s part of white privilege which is tangible. On the other hand, however less often people in a privileged class are realistically impacted by discrimination, it’s still > 0.0%. Since it usually costs nothing more to include everyone it seems useful.…
Racist people like you make peaceful protests and working for change against racism so much harder. You're just out for revenge and your rhetoric shows it. Edit: I've had just about enough of people using "white privilege" to justify violence and blatant discrimination because "they haven't been exposed to enough ". Its just another way to justify racism. Plenty of white people live in poverty. Its not ok in either d…
Racism is singling out white people as the source of all evil, and then backing it up with statistics which don’t tell the whole story.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#349amazing. This used to be called /cgi-bin/ with templates and XMLHttpRequest (a Microsoft invention initially supported only in IE then adopted by everyone) and now it's suddenly a new technology/approach but with a new name so you're not ridiculed for using it? I gotta give them credit for revisiting server-side page assembling though; moving application logic and templating mostly to the front end was a HUGE mistake…
cgi-bin didn’t give you the ability to update a chat page across several different windows in near real-time.
> cgi-bin didn’t give you the ability to update a chat page across several different windows in near real-time.
Servers could maintain an open connection and stream new data to the browser.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#350It sounds a lot like Laravel Livewire[1] Also a lot like React Server Components that we saw on HN yesterday[2] It seems like this is the next wave of web apps. Hopefully once the hype settles, we'll be able to decide which approach is best for which project. [1] https://laravel-livewire.com/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25497065
I wonder how recruiting companies will continue selling frontend react rockstars and backend nodejs warriors who can write endpoints. And yes, that's how they differentiate between frontend and backend, because knowing how to format your json urls (which is not real REST) is backend work and react is frontend.
> not real REST
Rarely admitted, but absolutely truth.