In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play • Hacker News Board

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#61

Post by gonehome » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #59

gonehome wrote: post #8

The game is a little more nuanced than this write up would have you believe. You can tell the Silverhand character that he's a whiny narcissist with over-simplified views that blames everyone for his own problems. I'd argue Silverhand and Yorinobu are not the heroes, but it ultimately depends on how you play and what decisions you make. You can also make fairly pragmatic decisions to do what makes the most sense in c…

The Silverhand character does grow somewhat towards the end. I actually started liking him before I got to the credits.

Yeah it's interesting since he becomes a blend of himself and V's personality.

I liked the story and world ultimately, I think people just like to have 'contrarian' takes on something popular as a way to signal how smart they are.

Probably too harshly worded, but it's a recurring thing I've noticed.

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#62

Post by tialaramex » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #2

Is anyone else weary of dystopian sci-fi? I'd love to see a setting where technology has made the world a practical utopia, and people generally don't have to be wary of each other. It would be tricky to introduce interesting conflict and challenges into such a setting, yes. There are some anime/manga like that, for example Aria [0], which is basically Venice on Mars and the main characters are aspiring gondoliers, w…

In terms of written fiction, Greg Egan's Amalgam setting has all the space-capable denizens of our outer galaxy effectively in a vast sprawling Utopia. Figuring out what to do with yourself in that circumstance is the story driver.

The Neil Gaiman run of Miracleman is about the Utopia constructed by Miracleman during the Alan Moore run of Utopia. Presumably the next series is about how that goes tragically wrong, but it has never been published. But the Golden Age (Gaiman run) is pretty interesting. People living in a Utopia are still people.

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#63

Post by mwcampbell » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

m3kw9 wrote: post #24

Trying to drag games into some corporate wokeness is definitely a punk move.

Notice though that the game is only distributed on platforms controlled by large corporations. So it's kind of like going to a movie theater to watch a big budget movie where the villain is an evil corporation (e.g. the 2004 Manchurian Candidate remake). That's why I liked the OP's line that the only punk move is not to play, and why I submitted this story even though I'm not into gaming.

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#64

Post by dkersten » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #61

dkersten wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Silverhand character does grow somewhat towards the end. I actually started liking him before I got to the credits.

Yeah it's interesting since he becomes a blend of himself and V's personality. I liked the story and world ultimately, I think people just like to have 'contrarian' takes on something popular as a way to signal how smart they are. Probably too harshly worded, but it's a recurring thing I've noticed.

Well, I do think the game has some very big problems (aside from the bugs; see my other comments), but most of the story is very well written in my opinion and the characters are great. There were some moments that really hit me hard in the feels. There were some little details (ringing Jackie's phone for example) that were just fantastic. I'm upset with CDPR management for lying and for not giving the dev team the time needed to finish it properly, but I'm not upset that I bought the game. I got my moneys worth and had a good time with it (yes, the game did crash regularly and have lots of annoying bugs, but I was mostly able to ignore it and continue anyway -- on PS4 too!)

I didn't think I'd like Silverhand at all, I haven't really seen any Keanu movies since The Matrix so had zero buy in with him being in the game, and at the start he was such a dry character. However, as it went on and as V and he interacted more, he grew on me and I guess V did too, so the V/Silverhand blend at the end became something I actually cared about.

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#65

Post by rubycon22 » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #51

rubycon22 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's plausible to believe that we'll make all kinds of technological advancements, solve world hunger and such kinds of scarcity, go to Mars, or whatever. However, it's unlikely that humans will ever overcome their greatest enemy, themselves. Such a utopian fantasy is still hard to take in for most people, while it's much easier to imagine things going to shit and degenerating to a cyberpunk dystopia. Humans make the…

> However, it's unlikely that humans will ever overcome their greatest enemy, themselves. I believe in nurture > nature, and I see it in the differences between different human settlements (cultures, nations) and in attitudes over time. In some places you're more likely to get robbed, in others you're more likely to get help. In some cities you're more likely to see casual litter, in other places more people cleaning…

I think that's very wishful thinking. Firstly, we're assuming that this will happen:

>"Once nobody has to constantly struggle for basic comforts,"

It's definitely possible. Humans have an immense amount of potential for good. But I don't believe the people in power, with the influence to enact meaningful change, will ever let this fly. Simply because of the reason that they greatly benefit from the current state of the world. People in this class have most of the capital and generate money from their existing wealth while doing basically nothing of value. They need us commoners to consume, consume, and consume. They need us to work and labor away, as cogs in the machine that makes them profit, so that they will not have to work like us. Yes, automation will come. But who will own the factories and machines? Exactly. But even then, there will still be many things that they require laborers for. And in the future, the common people will be fighting each other over the privilege of serving this owner class at the continued threat of destitution. Just like how it's always been...

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#66

Post by antisthenes » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

What irks me most about CDPR's games, including the Witcher series is that even during the most mundane playthrough, our main character ends up being a non-apologetic mass-murderer. As a teenager, I probably would have been fine with it as some sort of power-trip, but as an adult, it strikes me as very one-dimensional and a boring way to play.

I'm not sure which case is more unforgivable here. Geralt, the Witcher protagonist, in the books at least, makes it a personal point not to meddle in human affairs as much as possible, and to keep it strictly business for the most part - e.g. killing horrible monsters for coin.

In the game, our actions couldn't stray further from this principle.

From what I've seen in Cyberpunk's gameplay, we are no less than a mass-murderer as well. And despite most of our kills being gang members and thugs, I'm still not sure it's entirely justifiable. I've seen people indiscriminately kill civilians and cops by running them over with cars, and suffer no real consequences in further gameplay.

Hence it's quite hilarious to me when people compare Cyberpunk to Deus Ex or another stealth shooter. They must be out of their mind. The games are nothing alike. The shallowness and one-dimensionality of Cyberpunk makes it much closer to GTA/Borderlands than a revolutionary stealth/rpg game.

People were expecting a revolutionary game in the way Witcher 3 was when it came out. And that, Cyberpunk certainly isn't.

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#67

Post by pskinner » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:35 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #29

keiferski wrote: post #19

The sheer amount of hatred being thrown at this game is really something odd. It feels artificial, especially when practically every media outlet has the same vitriolic tone. I don’t play games much anymore, but I did pick Cyberpunk 2077 up (via Stadia) and I’ve found it to be a blast. Certainly not perfect, but absolutely a world worth exploring. My favorite part are the details; there are tons of little stories and…

I mean, when was the last time a major release performed so poorly that it got delisted from the PlayStation store? The game’s vitriolic reaction only really came about as a direct followup to possibly one of the most hyped up games this year.

From my own experiences, the new assassin's creed game, Valhalla, was much buggier when it came out - hundreds of game breaking quest bugs and things as basic as saved games not working and people losing over 30 hours of progress. Cyberpunk is much better quality than that.

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#68

Post by gerikson » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #46

Red29 wrote: post #16

Honestly, I found Cyberpunk really underwhelming and basically stopped playing. Apart from 1 or 2 moments (spider bot is cool,hotel theft job alright.) It's just very run and gun. And uniteresting. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I'd love it to be a mix of syndicate (if you know that game), Detroit, and something like a point and click game. Something with a ton of interaction and only a bit of fighting.

I’d love a modern day syndicate. I’d be afraid though, that they’d ruin it like they did Dungeon Keeper ... better of trying to pick it up on GoG or something ...

The modern-day "Syndicate" was pretty underwhelming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(2012_video_game)

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#69

Post by Razengan » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:46 PM UTC

rubycon22 wrote: post #65

Razengan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, it's unlikely that humans will ever overcome their greatest enemy, themselves. I believe in nurture > nature, and I see it in the differences between different human settlements (cultures, nations) and in attitudes over time. In some places you're more likely to get robbed, in others you're more likely to get help. In some cities you're more likely to see casual litter, in other places more people cleaning…

I think that's very wishful thinking. Firstly, we're assuming that this will happen: >"Once nobody has to constantly struggle for basic comforts," It's definitely possible. Humans have an immense amount of potential for good. But I don't believe the people in power, with the influence to enact meaningful change, will ever let this fly. Simply because of the reason that they greatly benefit from the current state of t…

Here are some videos of everyday street life from a few different countries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91w4GkdGfVA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3IB3Jygus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnDxHTaeNX0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUcTGx-pfvI

You can browse more on your own, just search for random travelogues.

Why hasn't every place devolved into chaos? Why are some places better off than others? Why can't that success be replicated?

Even if dethroning the current power structure does not happen, the ordinary people can still live increasingly comfortable lives as to make the differences practically irrelevant.

Look at the comforts we have access to now. Unprecedented in the history of humankind. Sure, not everyone has a private jet, but everyone can fly. Not everyone can eavesdrop on any conversation in the world, but everyone can have conversations all over the world. We may not have access to military satellites that can peer through buildings, but we do have Google Earth.

You speak of factories and production lines. What if they're all run by robots? Or better, everyone has a 3D printer in their kitchen that can just build an iPhone 42 right there?

How about matter replicators? Cloning pods? Medical immortality? Terraforming and colonizing multiple planets? With everything powered by an endless supply of fusion energy.

Nevermind if all that will be possible any time soon. Cyberpunk gets carried away with pessimistic predictions. I just think there's room for a genre of fiction that runs with optimistic prediction.

Re: In 'Cyberpunk 2077,' the Only Truly Punk Move Is Not to Play

#70

Post by gerikson » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 10:49 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #2

Is anyone else weary of dystopian sci-fi? I'd love to see a setting where technology has made the world a practical utopia, and people generally don't have to be wary of each other. It would be tricky to introduce interesting conflict and challenges into such a setting, yes. There are some anime/manga like that, for example Aria [0], which is basically Venice on Mars and the main characters are aspiring gondoliers, w…

The backstory of Ken MacLeod's "The Cassini Division" involves an Earth with a practical socialist utopia, but the main action involves the unceasing war against the uploaded capitalist class who have taken over Jupiter...