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Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

reuters.com

621–630 of 699 posts

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#621
post #2

Apple has been in and out of the car game for a few years now, with executives coming and going. What I'm about to say will be as meaningful as this hear-say article, but I feel that Apple management, and its shareholders, have no idea what it means to build a car. Things like this need 100% commitment from the management, Cook just doesn't seem like the guy to do it.

> but I feel that Apple management, and its shareholders, have no idea what it means to build a car I feel like people pretend that building a car is way harder than it actually is in 2020. All the components to build a car are readily available. A person can buy the parts on their own and put them together in their garage. It isn't like they have to go get a pick axe and start mining ore to create everything from sc…

> the onboard computer

Which one? I mean, even a Tesla has over 40 computers on the CAN bus. Cars may look simple when they just have a touchscreen interface, but they're really a small network of computers that can be driven. Engineering, and then building a car is really hard. Tesla has proven an upstart can do it, but they've been at it almost 20 years and Musk himself says it is very hard to build cars.

I'm sure Apple can do it if they put the resources in, but they're less than 1000 people deep at this point. 1000 people is a small department working on something you've never heard of at a large automaker. I don't even mean top secret stuff, I just mean day-to-day shit that most people don't think about, like drafting repair routines for each possible thing that can go wrong that someone in the field needs to fix in a timely manner. You take your car into get repaired and only 2-3 people may touch it, but that's nothing compared to the hundreds of people that worked on the information and software that those 2-3 people used to fix your car.

Not to mention the different software that is running in all of the 40+ computers in the car... or the hardware and software that's used to communicate with/diagnose problems with/update those computers.

Even after the car is engineered, it takes over a year to then engineer all of the tooling, equipment and processes that will be used to mass produce that car, put that tooling in place, configure it, test it, train people to use it, etc.

Modern cars are marvelous machines, and there's a nearly unbelievable amount of effort that goes into designing, building and repairing them.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#622
post #63
post #2

Apple has been in and out of the car game for a few years now, with executives coming and going. What I'm about to say will be as meaningful as this hear-say article, but I feel that Apple management, and its shareholders, have no idea what it means to build a car. Things like this need 100% commitment from the management, Cook just doesn't seem like the guy to do it.

> Things like this need 100% commitment from the management Then how can Elon Musk pull it off with only 50%?

He sleeps at the factory.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#623

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

> This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago.

Which, for what it's worth, is an illustration of how our intuitions about future likelihoods aren't very good. We tend to see as implausible things that are too different from how they are today, overlooking how much things can change in a few years.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why? they have the experience manufacturing huge numbers of vehicles and apple has the experience manufacturing products with good experience and build quality. Get gm to build the drivetrain and the body to apple spec, apple builds the interior themselves.

Electric cars are really simple to make (Apple doesn't need the help). GM is a legacy business with a legacy business model selling dozens of indistinguishable cars via multiple competing dealerships. Its both terrible for customers and not compatible with Apple. The reason GM is priced so low is because its half obligations and dead weight. I would not personally want to bail out the doubtlessly billions of dollars…

> Electric cars are really simple to make

Simple compared to what? They're way more complex than anything Apple makes now.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#625
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with ex Apple supply chain people, and they were very used to operating at massive scale and the leverage that came with it. This led to some some unhappy suppliers some of which walked because they felt we were being too demanding. I don't want to overgeneralize, some of the issue was likely the culture of this particular team, but I could definitely see growing pains as they move into a new vertical wit…

We need smart electric appliances from Apple at home - lights, washer/dryer, refrigerator, etc.,. We'll be controlled by Apple wherever we go :) Apple eyewear could even track how many times we flip our eyelids.

But if they dare to try to start a record label then Yoko Ono will put a quick stop to that.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's okay, you won't be the one driving soon enough

Ehhhh. Self driving cars have been just around the corner for a long time now. Not saying it won’t happen, but I wouldn’t buy a Tesla today on the assumption that it’ll happen within the lifetime of that car.

A long time? I feel like they went from "eventually" to "around the corner" pretty recently. Even though there weren't any particular leaps in self-driving technology happening then.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many windows are on an iPhone? Window motors? Window motor switches? Door panels to hold the window motor switches? Mechanical guides for the windows? The little weather striping to keep rain out from inside the doors? How many doors are there on an iPhone? Door latches? Door locks? Door handles? Door close sensors? Weather stripping to keep the rain out from inside the cabin? The little sticker inside the door l…

How many components on a car are engineered at a 5 nanometer level? Your comment is going to age like milk... For a company like Apple, making a car is child's play.

Car infotainment systems run ARM SoCs, much like an iPhone.

To compare the complexity of a car and a phone (any modern phone - they're all fundamentally similar inside) belies immense ignorance of both.

Phones are functionally complex, but physically quite simple. The complexity is dealt with by the chip fab and software. Electronic manufacturing processes are basically the same for every device, and so are very well understood and optimised.

A phone is a model of system abstraction. The incredible complexity of the processor and digital logic is abstracted into little black boxes which are then soldered to a PCB. The assembly is then a straightforward sandwich of all the bits.

I don't think anyone's arguing that phones are not complex, but that cars have an order of magnitude more bits to assemble, and that means manufacturing complexity that the existing manufacturers obtained through decades of iteration.

Tesla's a great example - they completely underestimated the complexity of manufacturing (building the machine to make the machine), spent billions of dollars on it and are still struggling with poor fit and finish.

Of course, any company can put the processes in place to build a modern car - it will just take time. To argue that a phone requires as many assembly processes as a car is simply ludicrous.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#628
This whole move towards renewables, electric cars, green energy is great. However I am not sure it can realistically happen without some huge (not incremental) breakthrough in the battery/electronics technology.

Let's look on UK only plan for this, If they to replace all currently used cars with electric ones (assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation batteries), it would take the following:

- 207,900 tonnes of cobalt - just under twice the annual global production - 264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate (LCE) - three quarters the world's production - at least 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium - nearly the entire world production of neodymium - 2,362,500 tonnes of copper - more than half the world's production in 2018

source: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2019/june/we-need-more-m...

And this is just UK.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "literally all" of the profit because Tesla controls the timing and amount of credits sold each quarter, and adjusted the sales of credits so that it could make the "4 consecutive quarters" profitability threshold for making the S&P500 rather than selling them all in one quarter as they did in the past. Profits are not fungible. Companies can, and do, determine profit and loss separately for each line of busines…

What is the upside to being on S&P? What were they on before, Nasdaq? What is the material difference? Genuine question.

Getting investment money from anyone who invests in an S&P500 index. Which is a lot considering how often the S&P500 is considered the default index.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure an EV is still that much more complex in terms of part count from a phone ? An ICE I would agree.

If you're asking this question seriously, I have to ask a clarification question: what are we actually talking about? Are we comparing just certain aspects of production of the whole thing? If you think about this from an engineering perspective for even 30 seconds there are so many differences that come to mind. - Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone - Must operate in a much w…

I simply asked a question you know, I'm neither a proponent nor an adversary of anything here.

I get you have a lot of knowledge on the matter.. but you're biased and quite emotional it seems.

You're shifting topic a bit.

You were talking about part count, not part complexity. My iPhone battery doesn't have a cooling system and my car doesn't need to fit in my pocket (<= absurd arguments for the sake or arguing outside of the original question)

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