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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#311

Post by earthboundkid »

jodrellblank wrote: post #292
rodgerd wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as the comments already made, there's another thing to consider: in a SLR or DSLR, the path used to determine whether or not you're in focus is different from the path light follows to the medium: the autofocus system has a screen that takes light from a mirror, and then adjusts the lens based off that measurement. In manual focus, you're basic it off the path the light takes to the focusing screen, via a mir…

Does it help with using cameras for video footage, or would it be no problem to hold the mirror out of the way for a long time? (I imagine it being held in some kind of tension that wouldn't like long term force on it).

My DSLR had a hard limit of 30 minutes video time, but I suspect this is because of the software issues, not mirror tension per se.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#312

Post by detaro »

earthboundkid wrote: post #311
jodrellblank wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it help with using cameras for video footage, or would it be no problem to hold the mirror out of the way for a long time? (I imagine it being held in some kind of tension that wouldn't like long term force on it).

My DSLR had a hard limit of 30 minutes video time, but I suspect this is because of the software issues, not mirror tension per se.

That probably was a tax/duty thing, the EU treats (treated? not sure) cameras that can record over 30 mins or so as video cameras which have higher fees.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#313

Post by ksk »

pier25 wrote: post #298
ksk wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain the contribution of Apple here? I believe they simply buy the sensor tech from Sony. Sony currently makes the the best (or close to the best) consumer grade sensors for a wide variety of markets from dinky sensors for smartphones to full-frame and medium-format sensors for professional applications. Also, I don't think Apple (as of today) has the capability to "obliterate" the pro market. Are you simp…

Apple buys the CMOS from Sony but I'd be surprised if it wasn't considering building it themselves just like the 5G modems, the ARM processors, etc. But it goes well beyond that. Apple has been investing for decades into video editing and post production software, codecs, image processing, AI, and electronics manufacturing. Plus, it's a brand already trusted by the video and photography industry which has been using…

Yes, Apple can and does design chips. But as you can imagine - "Designing chips" can mean anything.

With respect to CMOS chips you can go from from calling up Sony and ordering one off the menu with your custom requirements, to designing the NAND/pixel interconnects, microlenses, downstream dual-gain architectures, to working on the bonding chemistry, masked pixels, CFAs etc, etc. However, all this stuff is patented up the wazoo, and companies like Sony, Samsung, Aptina, OmniVision etc do not simply hand-over world-class tech like this.

Apple is very good at supply chain logistics, overall packaging and design, UX, Software, etc. However, I don't see them challenging the established players on core technology.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#314

Post by rangibaby »

andi999 wrote: post #239
cactus2093 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re about 2 or 3 years too late with this comment. The switch to mirrorless is already here, Nikon and Canon have the majority of their core lens lineups out already for these platforms so it’s unlikely they’d replace them again for the next decade or longer. And yes, they are mostly better than previous generations across the board. Which is pretty cool, that something based on such a simple idea that’s b…

What is the deal with mirrorless? (no mirror, but why does this improve optics?)

The mirror being between the sensor and lens means that there is a dead zone where there can be no lens, which severely restricts lens designs.

For example, for many years fast normal lenses on SLRs were 58mm “Biotar” not 50mm because a a new kind of focusing (retro focus) had to be adapted to work with a mirror in the way.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#315

Post by ScottBurson »

detaro wrote: post #312
earthboundkid wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My DSLR had a hard limit of 30 minutes video time, but I suspect this is because of the software issues, not mirror tension per se.

That probably was a tax/duty thing, the EU treats (treated? not sure) cameras that can record over 30 mins or so as video cameras which have higher fees.

Yeah, that's still going on, dammit -- my new D780 has the 30 min. limit.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#316

Post by ScottBurson »

monkeynotes wrote: post #78
formerly_proven wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the moment lens prices are pretty bonkers but I think that Canon f/11 lens is a great indicator; it's basically less than 1/10th of the cost of a traditional 800mm lens and does more than enough for most people. But that tradeoff seems hardly new to me. Consumer 70-300 for ~300 $ vs. Pro 70-200 for 2000+ $. The "only" difference is build quality and the pro lens being 2-3 stops brighter. Price difference: ~10x.

2-3 stops is enormous. Speed of the lens is partially where the additional cost comes from, and professionals are willing to pay for that extra performance - especially sports photographers. It's been a long time since I paid any attention to pro photographic equipment so I don't know if fast lenses are important with modern sensors performing so well in low light. But back in the analog/early digital days 2-3 stops…

For fine art photography a fast lens is still desirable, but for almost anything else it matters less than it used to. The sensor itself is worth about 2 stops.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#317

Post by geerlingguy »

petepete wrote: post #127
geerlingguy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nikon has been making PF, or Phased Fresnel, lenses for a number of years too. The 300mm f4 is a head-turner due to its tiny size and diminutive weight, while still being as good as the old 300mm in almost every way. They also have a 500mm 5.6 that's similarly tiny (compared to a non-PF version) and hard to get.

I've had the 300PF for several years and it's my most-used lens. I photograph birds and wildlife and being able to fit an extremely-good setup (a D500 with 300PF) into my smallest camera bag (Lowepro hatchback 16l) encourages me to take it on almost every outing.

That's one reason I do tend to grab my Sony E mount fairly often these days... I just wish there were a lens close to the quality and weight of the PF 300 for the Sony system.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#318

Post by ipsum2 »

oblio wrote: post #96
beagle3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

I can't find it now, but I remember reading about something with what seems a lot more boring than the articles I find about "metamaterial lenses". Maybe someone has a pointer for what it's actually called. It was something reproducing a sort of "solar furnace" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace ) at a micro scale, coordinated with electronics. Think creating a dynamic lens by redirecting light from many m…

Microlenses are used already in most modern camera sensors to absorb more light or used for dual-pixel autofocus.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#319

Post by chiefgeek »

ip26 wrote: post #296
Arelius wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, losing the mirror doesn’t really improve optics, however removing the mirror and related mechanism does allow one to bring the lens closer to the focal plane, which in turn affects the size of the rest of the lens elements. And makes everything smaller and lighter as you allude to.

which in turn affects the size of the rest of the lens elements. Sort of. The diameter of the front element is predetermined, a function of the sensor size, focal length, and aperture. Mirrorless cannot escape this. But, the shorter distance from sensor to lens does simplify the design of a good wide angle. Sadly, wide angles were never the big heavy lenses in the first place. The whole smaller & lighter thing is not…

Heh. You've never carried a body with a Nikon 14-24 f/2.8 or a Canon 11-23 f/2.8. They are beasts! But yes, the teles are generally the heavy ones.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#320

Post by wegs »

geerlingguy wrote: post #87
wegs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have some of the finest scientists and engineers in the world, as well as a gigantic portfolio of patents. They aren't going away. Those are exactly quickly going away. Engineers and scientists need to get paid and want job stability, while patents have a 20-year lifespan. Nikon was on top of the world in 2008 with the D300 and the D90, but the technologies that made those possible were patented years prior. R…

Nikon needs a new D3/D700-tier body to get back into the game. Right now their bodies are just 'competitive' with Canon and Sony FF bodies... back when the D3 sensor came out, it put the final nail in the coffin for most analog film shooters.

Nikon buys sensors from Sony. It can't get ahead in any meaningful way there. Plus, sensor tech has plateaued a bit.

Nikon, if it were to survive, would need to move into new markets. dSLRs are dying, but imaging is exploding. Nikon and Canon ran into the innovator's dilemma: they didn't want to eat into their core market, so they released crippled products like the Nikon 1 or Canon M-mount. By the time they got into the game, their market was collapsing, they lost a lot of credibility, and Sony had a huge lead. It's probably too late, but we'll see.

Drones, industrial, teleconferencing, and hundreds of other markets are popping up, but Canon and Nikon are conspicuously absent.

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