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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#271

Post by Wistar »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #61
robotmay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

Wow that lens is bonkers. What a reasonable price. I love it. Aside, I enjoy that Ken also loves this lens, despite it being mostly plastic, which he usually shits all over. It actually seems like a feature here, for weight purposes.

I have a 70-300mm DO and it is not a lens I like much. The 400 DO is probably light-years better. It is definitely light-years more expensive.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#272

Post by Exmoor »

alacombe wrote: post #221
Exmoor wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nikon also has a well respected sports-optics division (binoculars, spotting scopes), although they are also seeing a ton of competition in that marketplace as well.

If I'm mistaken, Nikon existed the scope business earlier this year.

I wasn't aware of that, but you appear to be right [0]. The spotting scopes I mentioned are more like telescopes meant for viewing terrestrial objects such as wildlife, shooting targets, etc.

[0] https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/gun-control-nikon-wi...

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#273

Post by medion »

mmaunder wrote: post #126
beagle3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

The cine lens and professional photographer lens market is big and irreplaceable until they figure out how, for example, to make an f4 600mm prime without a 150mm front element. Many problems to solve until we see the last days of optical professional lenses. Price points for these start at $2000, the cine lenses are around $4500 for primes and that 600mm I mentioned is a Canon lens, has a front element grown from fl…

Or Cooke cine lens primes start at about 20,000eur, a zoom lens up to 60,000eur - just to comprehend where the lens top end is.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#274

Post by sudosysgen »

foldr wrote: post #254
sudosysgen wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still a great many. First, much greater resolution. Then, being able to take pictures of things going fast, then also being able to take non-blurry pictures in very low light, then there is the dynamic range, and then there is also constant aperture zoom as well as telephoto focal ranges. Lenses on phones are limited by diffraction. They can never provide the quality of a larger lens because their aperture…

Phones are already better at taking non-blurry pictures in very low light. They generally have pretty fast shutter speeds available for moving subjects. Dynamic range is not particularly important now that exposure blending works so well. Diffraction all comes out in the wash. Smaller sensors allow wider apertures (and phones have some room to grow in terms of sensor size). The resolution advantage is actually quite…

If you use multiple exposures for exposure blending you lose sensitivity, and in the case of fast shutter speeds image quality plummets.

Phones are simply not better at taking non-blury pictures in very lowlight. Cameras evolved since the 90s, we have 5 stops of IS, sharp f/1.4 lenses and exposure stacking.

The resolution advantage is not moderate at all. A 12MP phone is around as sharp as a theoretically perfect 8MP sensor with a perfect lens, while current cameras are as sharp as 40+MP perfect sensor with a theoretically perfect lens.

Diffraction absolutely doesn't come out as a wash. What matters is the actual diameter of the aperture, not the ratio. Phones are a tenth of ILCs in this metric, or even less for non-optimal focal lengths.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#275

Post by Metacelsus »

Hamuko wrote: post #123
perardi wrote: post #120

I fear for Nikon, even though I suspect they have lifelines, given Bank of Japan’s quantitative easing. They’re the least diversified of the big camera companies. Sony has…a lot, from semiconductors to financial instruments. Canon has high-end video, scanners, and enterprise printing and copying. Nikon has photography-oriented cameras, some medical optics, and semiconductor equipment, and that’s about it. They’re jus…

Do more boutique camera companies like Leica just survive on their (what I assume to be) large margins?

Leica also makes microscopes (I use one of them regularly).

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#276

Post by Wistar »

mmaunder wrote: post #126
beagle3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

The cine lens and professional photographer lens market is big and irreplaceable until they figure out how, for example, to make an f4 600mm prime without a 150mm front element. Many problems to solve until we see the last days of optical professional lenses. Price points for these start at $2000, the cine lenses are around $4500 for primes and that 600mm I mentioned is a Canon lens, has a front element grown from fl…

Pick up an $11k Canon 200-400 L lens and it is this super solid, beautifully made thing.

Pick up a Canon CN-E 30-300 cinema lens and it is this exquisite, jewel-like thing that seems as though it is made by NASA. And it's $45K.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#277

Post by papito »

varjag wrote: post #39
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #4

Heartbreaking, but they are a "survivor" company. They have lasted over 100 years, through a world war (including firestorm bombing), earthquakes, fires and tsunamis. They had never been particularly big, until the 1990s, with the advent of point-and-shoot digital cameras. That gravy train ended when the iPhone came out. They are probably contracting to their more traditional role, of Big Black Cameras, as well as so…

> They have some of the finest scientists and engineers in the world, as well as a gigantic portfolio of patents. They aren't going away. Kodak would like to have a word.

Or Xerox.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#278

Post by megablast »

warkdarrior wrote: post #176
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been seeing a lot of Apple Watches on wrists, lately. Lots of AirPods, too. But that is anecdotal, from a limited geographic perspective.

Completely different markets: good Swiss watches start at $2-3k and go up, way, way up. Apple watches are sub-$1k for the majority of models.

Not a different market at all. I hate that phrase.

Apple watches are updated every few years. Swiss watches last a lot longer. Price might not be that different over 10 to 20 years.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#279

Post by throwaway80332 »

jbay808 wrote: post #259
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they will do the "Apple" thing: "Designed in California."

I see this all the time now. My Kitchenaid kettle has a similar "designed in X" note on it. To me that kind of messaging just exudes arrogance.

Krang's gonna krang

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#280

Post by alfalfasprout »

beagle3 wrote: post #22
robotmay wrote: post #11

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

This is so laughably wrong it's not even funny. We're not talking about individual lens elements but entire camera lenses.

There's a ton of engineering that goes into designing eg; a zoom lens that can cover a focal range while retaining sharpness, minimal color fringing, etc. And that's assuming you can use software to correct for distortion... in the past that was a dealbreaker. The result is a lens that requires 10-20 (or sometimes even more) individual elements. No matter how you cut it that will be expensive.

There's no cheating physics sadly.

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