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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#251

Post by Arelius »

DeathRay2K wrote: post #247
andi999 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the deal with mirrorless? (no mirror, but why does this improve optics?)

Every element the light interacts before hitting the sensor degrades the quality in some small way. But losing the mirror doesn't really improve optics significantly. It's more about reducing cost and complexity in manufacturing, moving things like autofocus into software. The benefits to the consumer are quieter shooting and a lighter body.

Yes, losing the mirror doesn’t really improve optics, however removing the mirror and related mechanism does allow one to bring the lens closer to the focal plane, which in turn affects the size of the rest of the lens elements. And makes everything smaller and lighter as you allude to.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#252

Post by ksk »

meowzero wrote: post #106

I've been around photography for a while. This is sad news but not surprising. Mobile phones have gotten good enough that you don't need a DSLR anymore to take "nice pictures." All the computational photography to create fake bokeh, good low-light photos, etc. pretty much ate up all the demand for DSLR. If you look at the photos on a big monitor, you can spot the difference between a DSLR and smartphone. But on a sma…

You hit the nail on the head, the set of images that can only be taken with a DSLR/MILC is getting smaller and smaller.

To counter that a bit I'd like to add that there is a rise of video/youtuber folks wanting smooth 4k video with tracking auto-focus, and real bokeh which is making cameras, or hybrid cameras relevant again. I don't think phones do fake bokeh in video mode or do low-light video w/o looking like ass.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#253

Post by ska »

michaelt wrote: post #187
formerly_proven wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the moment lens prices are pretty bonkers but I think that Canon f/11 lens is a great indicator; it's basically less than 1/10th of the cost of a traditional 800mm lens and does more than enough for most people. But that tradeoff seems hardly new to me. Consumer 70-300 for ~300 $ vs. Pro 70-200 for 2000+ $. The "only" difference is build quality and the pro lens being 2-3 stops brighter. Price difference: ~10x.

> the pro lens being 2-3 stops brighter Is it brighter for the same camera body, aperture and depth of field? If so, what would one look for in a lens's specifications to describe this difference?

No, it just has more available aperture. It's common to see a consumer telephoto with a max of 5.6, and a similar length pro version with 2.8, for example.

Which makes it bigger and heavier, harder to manufacture, and smaller market - all of this pushes prices up (an order of magnitude is common)

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#254

Post by foldr »

sudosysgen wrote: post #207
foldr wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Doing great things with 10X less light is impressive, but at some point, you need a big sensor and good quality glass. This problem is basically solved already by taking multiple exposures and blending them in software. Once we're at the point where stacking 10 exposures works reliably even in challenging conditions (and we're pretty nearly there with the latest phones) then many of the advantages of a larger sensor…

There are still a great many. First, much greater resolution. Then, being able to take pictures of things going fast, then also being able to take non-blurry pictures in very low light, then there is the dynamic range, and then there is also constant aperture zoom as well as telephoto focal ranges. Lenses on phones are limited by diffraction. They can never provide the quality of a larger lens because their aperture…

Phones are already better at taking non-blurry pictures in very low light. They generally have pretty fast shutter speeds available for moving subjects. Dynamic range is not particularly important now that exposure blending works so well.

Diffraction all comes out in the wash. Smaller sensors allow wider apertures (and phones have some room to grow in terms of sensor size).

The resolution advantage is actually quite moderate (people are often mislead by comparing the number of pixels rather than its square root).

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#255

Post by jbay808 »

howlgarnish wrote: post #85
benrbray wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big downgrade in quality too, in most cases. When I moved here and had to furnish a house / stock a kitchen, I was amazed at the diversity and quality of basic cheap home goods here.

"Here" being Japan? Most of those cheap home goods (Muji etc) are made in China now.

Even Daiso has tons of made-in-Japan dollar store goods of superb quality.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#256

Post by ksk »

pier25 wrote: post #192

Apple could obliterate the pro video and DSLR market with all it has learned about sensors and image processing in the past decade. It would only need to release a pro body like Red, Black Magic, etc, supporting different mounts (Nikon F, etc) and an integrated workflow with Final Cut. It has already done that for the consumer market and part of the enthusiast market... My guess as to why Apple hasn't done it yet is…

Can you explain the contribution of Apple here? I believe they simply buy the sensor tech from Sony. Sony currently makes the the best (or close to the best) consumer grade sensors for a wide variety of markets from dinky sensors for smartphones to full-frame and medium-format sensors for professional applications.

Also, I don't think Apple (as of today) has the capability to "obliterate" the pro market. Are you simply talking about buying other companies, or making new home-grown products?

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#257

Post by ngokevin »

varispeed wrote: post #125
meowzero wrote: post #106

I've been around photography for a while. This is sad news but not surprising. Mobile phones have gotten good enough that you don't need a DSLR anymore to take "nice pictures." All the computational photography to create fake bokeh, good low-light photos, etc. pretty much ate up all the demand for DSLR. If you look at the photos on a big monitor, you can spot the difference between a DSLR and smartphone. But on a sma…

Oh I wish this AI photo craze died out. I see that it may appeal to some people as a kind of "nicerising" effect, but without the context a casual viewer may take the picture as unaltered snapshot of the world. Of course the alterations are rather minute in the grand scheme of things, but if we continue looking at these taking them without context, I wonder how our perception of the world will get detached from reali…

There's no "real thing". All photos are processed, through the lens, by the software on the device, and by the photographers' workflows. When you shoot JPG, there's already a lot of processing that happens, and when you shoot RAW, you need to process that yourself from a dull, flat image.

Photographers rarely post un-processed images. Even before all of that, settings are chosen which alter the exposure, depth of field, focus point, color temperature of the image which alter the "real thing". It's common to think "editing" a photo is some cheating magic, but it should be considered the norm, and how people share their vision of what they want it to look like.

The AI can just automate a lot of the workflow or need to buy extra equipment, still up the human to decide how they want the image to come out.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#258

Post by tomc1985 »

dsego wrote: post #131
bee_rider wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty wild to think that, like, 20 years ago digital camera had relatively nice little screens on them and relatively good processing, while phones had those silly little green-and-black LCDs. I wonder if there's an alternate universe where people are saying "Nokia seems to be really doomed. This is sad but not surprising -- smartcamera antennas have gotten good enough that you can get reception almost anywher…

The camera manufacturers seem to be set in their ways. Wouldn't it be cool if you could load a sim card into your smart-camera & use android apps for cool features, like proper HDR (not the manual bracketing stuff), maybe apply some casual third-party filters, or instant streaming and sharing on social platforms. But maybe the target market, the professional photographers, are also the older generation that care more…

Oh god please no. The fewer "smart" things to deal with the better. Smartphones have already massively overstepped their calling.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#259

Post by jbay808 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14
Aeolun wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for the Japanese market, not ‘made in Japan’ is a big downgrade in perception.

I wonder if they will do the "Apple" thing: "Designed in California."

I see this all the time now. My Kitchenaid kettle has a similar "designed in X" note on it.

To me that kind of messaging just exudes arrogance.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#260

Post by vmception »

ksk wrote: post #252
meowzero wrote: post #106

I've been around photography for a while. This is sad news but not surprising. Mobile phones have gotten good enough that you don't need a DSLR anymore to take "nice pictures." All the computational photography to create fake bokeh, good low-light photos, etc. pretty much ate up all the demand for DSLR. If you look at the photos on a big monitor, you can spot the difference between a DSLR and smartphone. But on a sma…

You hit the nail on the head, the set of images that can only be taken with a DSLR/MILC is getting smaller and smaller. To counter that a bit I'd like to add that there is a rise of video/youtuber folks wanting smooth 4k video with tracking auto-focus, and real bokeh which is making cameras, or hybrid cameras relevant again. I don't think phones do fake bokeh in video mode or do low-light video w/o looking like ass.

not yet.

The Lidar and infrared and AI will help with the low light. They fill in colors instead of take the result of the lens and sensor physical limitations.

There are apps that do what the default cameras don’t do yet, and we’ll continue to see rapid optimizations on this front.

what you mentioned is not outside of the realm of what can be done. If there is a need, making an app that does it will give you a brief advantage.

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