Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan • Hacker News Board

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#191

Post by Der_Einzige » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #186

hef19898 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras =!= Lenses. I always found Nikon cameras more my taste than canon. But that is just taste, in terms of quality, in the sense of the pictures, I never saw a difference. Not back the day when we still developed our black and white pictures ourselves and not now with digital cameras. Lenses on the other hand a different thing altogether. There I saw defferences between the "cheaper" Sigma and the premium Nikkor…

There I saw defferences between the "cheaper" Sigma and the premium Nikkor ones I've always wondered what the difference is between Sigma and a brand like Canon or Nikon. I used to have both Canon and Sigma lenses. The Sigmas felt different, and the pictures they produced had a different "look" for what was supposed to be an equivalent lens. My eye isn't trained for these sorts of things, so I was never able to quant…

Leaves OSS out of all their lenses. That's what they do. Annoys me that the best fast prime for my sony A6100 (sigma f1.4s) won't work for video because of this. I'm stuck with the far shittier sony f1.8s...

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#192

Post by pier25 » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

Apple could obliterate the pro video and DSLR market with all it has learned about sensors and image processing in the past decade. It would only need to release a pro body like Red, Black Magic, etc, supporting different mounts (Nikon F, etc) and an integrated workflow with Final Cut.

It has already done that for the consumer market and part of the enthusiast market...

My guess as to why Apple hasn't done it yet is because the the pro market is peanuts (for them). It also wouldn't look too good. It's one thing to compete with Samsung, and another too put many beloved brands (Arri, etc) out of business with the snap of a finger.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#193

Post by Der_Einzige » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

LandR wrote: post #170

ghaff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigma used to be one of the brands you bought because you didn't have the money for the camera manufacturer's lens. Now, they have unique models in a number of cases. I still have mostly Canon glass but I have a couple Sigma models because Canon doesn't have the equivalent.

Haven't used a sigma lense for years. Are they now comparable quality to NIkon/Canon lenses?

Sigma makes some of the best and highest quality lenses (compared to competitors), at least that's my experience with a Sony E mount aps-c camera...

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#194

Post by iad » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #175

lorenzhs wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't relate to this at all. I have a Canon EOS 450D (Rebel XSi, 2008 model year) with a few lenses that I used to love, but haven't really used for years now. Its low light performance sucks, it's almost impossible to photograph people at night. My phone does a much better job of that. Yes, the DSLR's optics run circles around any phone, but the sensor really does show its age. And since you specifically mention t…

You're comparing a modern phone to a very old camera in DSLR terms. Much like the nokia you probably had in 2008, things have very much moved on.

Are there DSLRs with image processing features like Google's "Night Shot"? Where you can take a very long hand-held exposure and it will never be blurry?

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#195

Post by dman » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #192

Apple could obliterate the pro video and DSLR market with all it has learned about sensors and image processing in the past decade. It would only need to release a pro body like Red, Black Magic, etc, supporting different mounts (Nikon F, etc) and an integrated workflow with Final Cut. It has already done that for the consumer market and part of the enthusiast market... My guess as to why Apple hasn't done it yet is…

Maybe buying Arri and bringing them in house would be their play.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#196

Post by foldr » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #45

beagle3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

>but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university facility, that work better than some $500 lens -- and the latter are expensive because they are hard to make the traditional way. I find this very fascinating because while I enjoy my ever-increasing smartphone camera and use it as a daily driver, I have a about 13 year old Canon DSLR (one of the first one they made now)…

>Doing great things with 10X less light is impressive, but at some point, you need a big sensor and good quality glass.

This problem is basically solved already by taking multiple exposures and blending them in software. Once we're at the point where stacking 10 exposures works reliably even in challenging conditions (and we're pretty nearly there with the latest phones) then many of the advantages of a larger sensor are moot.

As far as glass "quality" is concerned, smart phone manufacturers benefit hugely from economy of scale. I wouldn't necessarily assume that smart phone lenses are manufactured to lower quality standards just because you're paying less for them.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#197

Post by acl777 » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

mmaunder wrote: post #183

Is it possible to capture raw photons using a digital sensor, right before they would have entered a lens front element. Then simulate lens refraction through multiple elements in software? This would allow you to change out lenses in post production. Anyone done any work on this?

Are you referring to a Light Field Camera?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-field_camera

If so, Lytro made a camera based on that tech.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#198

Post by frostburg » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #175

lorenzhs wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't relate to this at all. I have a Canon EOS 450D (Rebel XSi, 2008 model year) with a few lenses that I used to love, but haven't really used for years now. Its low light performance sucks, it's almost impossible to photograph people at night. My phone does a much better job of that. Yes, the DSLR's optics run circles around any phone, but the sensor really does show its age. And since you specifically mention t…

You're comparing a modern phone to a very old camera in DSLR terms. Much like the nokia you probably had in 2008, things have very much moved on.

To a very old and entry level camera.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#199

Post by vel0city » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

lorenzhs wrote: post #118

criley2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university facility, that work better than some $500 lens -- and the latter are expensive because they are hard to make the traditional way. I find this very fascinating because while I enjoy my ever-increasing smartphone camera and use it as a daily driver, I have a about 13 year old Canon DSLR (one of the first one they made now)…

I can't relate to this at all. I have a Canon EOS 450D (Rebel XSi, 2008 model year) with a few lenses that I used to love, but haven't really used for years now. Its low light performance sucks, it's almost impossible to photograph people at night. My phone does a much better job of that. Yes, the DSLR's optics run circles around any phone, but the sensor really does show its age. And since you specifically mention t…

To be fair to other DSLRs, the Rebel XSi's autofocus was considered one of its weakest parts when the camera was new. There are lots of other autofocus systems which are much faster and more accurate.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#200

Post by dsego » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

jedimastert wrote: post #144

dsego wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an x-t30 and my phone can't even compare. It's an entry level Samsung and those have really bad and slow cameras, esp in low light. A flagship might be a different story. Tbh, I wasn't that impressed with the fuji camera with the included 15-45 kit lens, which is rather mediocre. But after getting the 35mm f2 I can really appreciate the difference in the quality of photos. The other part is doing a course on p…

> The other part is doing a course on photography and learning the manual settings. I will concede that I'm not the average consumer and already had "manual mode" camera experience > Without that, there is really no reason to use anything but a smartphone. I would disagree with that sentiment, but I'm on the other side of the fence of knowledge, so it's hard for me to say

This was an introduction course for digital photography with practical training, so we would get out once a week to shoot with our cameras. A lot of my colleagues had either older second-hand or borrowed cameras. Of course, we would hang around before and after the lessons to chitchat. And I could notice a sentiment from some that they couldn't see the benefits of these cameras, since they could get better results with their phones thanks to built-in processing algorithms (at least what you could see on the little screens). Their cameras were complicated and the automatic settings wouldn't return great results without post-processing. And none of them were really excited by the idea of sitting in front of the computer, editing raw files. But this seems like a must for getting the most out of the camera's sensor, since most cameras aren't doing much or any processing by themselves.