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Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

virginiamercury.com

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Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#111

Post by chrisseaton »

umvi wrote: post #102
chrisseaton wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think the default should be that it's your right of way in the car? Why should pedestrians keep out of your way and not cross your path? Why don't we instead say you should keep out of the pedestrians way and not cross their path? Maybe we should reset the expectation that cars own the streets, and make them a guest there, deferring to human beings in the first instance.

> Why do you think the default should be that it's your right of way in the car? a) Because it's the law, b) because there's a power dynamic. I can accidentally kill a pedestrian, a pedestrian can't accidentally kill me unless they throw a brick off an overpass. > Why should pedestrians keep out of your way and not cross your path? So that they take responsibility for their own safety. > Why don't we instead say you…

All your arguments are about protecting yourself and limiting your liability at the expense of the pedestrian and you just slowing down and taking more care.

You even talk in the passive voice about people being struck by your car rather than you striking them with your car.

That's a shit attitude.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#112

Post by msla »

chrisseaton wrote: post #63
msla wrote: post #26

> Before the advent of the automobile, pedestrians in America were widely recognized as having the right of way in all situations. OK, let's go back to this. You can argue right-of-way with a ton of fiberglass and steel going 35 mph. Tell us all how that works out for you. Placing blame doesn't mean anything when the laws of physics dictate which one's going to be the winner in any given scenario.

If that's the case, why is the car going 35 mph in the first place? Maybe they shouldn't be going that fast in areas with pedestrians?

People do a lot of things they shouldn't.

Some of those things have heavier penalties than others.

For example, speeding rarely renders one a quadriplegic.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#113

Post by chrisseaton »

msla wrote: post #112
chrisseaton wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, why is the car going 35 mph in the first place? Maybe they shouldn't be going that fast in areas with pedestrians?

People do a lot of things they shouldn't. Some of those things have heavier penalties than others. For example, speeding rarely renders one a quadriplegic.

Why's your reaction to ban the pedestrians from the street rather than banning the cars from the street?

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#114

Post by hmottestad »

bigwavedave wrote: post #95
hmottestad wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway pedestrians have the right of way on zebras. There was a fair bit of discussion a few years ago about how someone jogging in the dark would dart across a zebra and then drivers had to slam on the brakes not to hit them. As a driver though, most roads to my right have the right of way. So if there is a road to the right where the view is blocked by some bushes or a house ... I will slow down just in case a c…

> In Norway pedestrians have the right of way on zebras. For only a moment, my brain thought you meant that Norwegians riding zebras had the right of way, but half a second later my brain realized they could no longer be considered pedestrians if they were riding an animal. Is "zebra" the real term for "crosswalk" and I've been wrong my whole life?

I grew up with British english. Might be why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_crossing

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#115

Post by umvi »

francisofascii wrote: post #42
umvi wrote: post #21

Jaywalking drives me crazy... sometimes I wish American culture was more German/Japanese in this area and Americans walked the extra 20 feet to the nearest crosswalk and waited for the light. A few times now I've had to tap my brakes for some guy dashing across the street to the island in the middle because he was too impatient to wait for the light to change. Sometimes it's a lady with a shopping cart. These aren't…

> a lady with a shopping cart Sounds like it is residential. That lady who has to risk death to get her groceries probably doesn't appreciate people going 45+ in her neighborhood.

No, commercial. There are homeless people that jaywalk everywhere and the shopping carts hold their worldly possessions. If there is a shopping cart in a residential area, it usually means the shopping cart was stolen.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#116

Post by nineplay »

marricks wrote: post #34
umvi wrote: post #21

Jaywalking drives me crazy... sometimes I wish American culture was more German/Japanese in this area and Americans walked the extra 20 feet to the nearest crosswalk and waited for the light. A few times now I've had to tap my brakes for some guy dashing across the street to the island in the middle because he was too impatient to wait for the light to change. Sometimes it's a lady with a shopping cart. These aren't…

Many US cities are designed to be downright hostile to pedestrians, California in particular. Some areas in Orange County have blocks before cross walks, or cross walks only on one side of the street so you had to make the right decision a block ago about which side of the street to be on! Strip malls seemed designed to have people drive the 1k feet between businesses rather than having accessible walking. With city…

> Many US cities are designed to be downright hostile to pedestrians

Exactly, which is why the decriminalization of jaywalking in those cities is a terrible idea. Orange County isn't going to be redesigned, so more jaywalkers means more pedestrian deaths.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#117

Post by jgwil2 »

Anon1096 wrote: post #81
asutekku wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they want to do business in europe they should follow the european laws.

This site clearly doesn't want to, but you still have people like the GP and others here complaining. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If commenters here want sites to have the option to not deal with Europe, then they shouldn't also turn around and chide the sites for making that choice.

I wish I could upvote this twice. They're literally trying to comply with European law by disabling the site for Europeans.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#118

Post by AtlasBarfed »

woodruffw wrote: post #100

We in the US do an absolutely horrific job of recognizing and compensating for the externalities of our automotive culture. The criminalization of jaywalking is one major aspect, but also consider: 1. The construction of highways through poor (read: minority) urban areas, causing mass respiratory disease and premature deaths[1]. 2. Allocation of free public space (car parking) to drivers, effectively subsidizing (dis…

1) I will be curious to see if the BEV revolution happens there will be a huge statistical change in cancer rates in the US.

3) as a cyclist who transitions from commuting by bike in the summer to car in the winter, it is astonishing how my psychology is impacted by driving in the two modes. I am so much more impatient and angry from driving.

There is just a nasty psychological feedback cycle of the obvious pure potential of the automobile as a time savings device and the visceral feeling of losing that when encountering any traffic or obstacle.

At least I get the cycling part to enlighten my perspective. Most americans are car-encased permanently and oblivious.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#119

Post by DanBC »

castis wrote: post #60
hk__2 wrote: post #14

This is what I get from France: > This site not available in your country I wonder what makes that website so special it can’t comply with GDPR.

It's a wordpress installation containing news for Virginia in the US. No one outside this area is the target market.

Which means they can safely ignore GDPR. But they're not, they're blocking visitors. That's an incoherent response: if they need to pay attention to GDPR blocking doesn't protect them, and if they don't need to pay attention to GDPR blocking visitors just deprives them of page views.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#120

Post by BrandoElFollito »

I cannot get to the site (blocked for EU) but the rule in France is two way.

The driver must not enforce its priority when there is someone crossing the street at a place they should not. The price is high.

A pedestrian can cross anywhere but has priority only on a zebra crossing. They are however expected to use a zebra crossing if there is one less 50 m away. It may cost you 11€ if you do not.

The reality is of course that people cross everywhere and it takes a lot of self control not to crosson a red light when there is nobody (I did that when I had small kids to give the right example)

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