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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#201

Post by samatman »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #191
reaperducer wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There I saw defferences between the "cheaper" Sigma and the premium Nikkor ones I've always wondered what the difference is between Sigma and a brand like Canon or Nikon. I used to have both Canon and Sigma lenses. The Sigmas felt different, and the pictures they produced had a different "look" for what was supposed to be an equivalent lens. My eye isn't trained for these sorts of things, so I was never able to quant…

Leaves OSS out of all their lenses. That's what they do. Annoys me that the best fast prime for my sony A6100 (sigma f1.4s) won't work for video because of this. I'm stuck with the far shittier sony f1.8s...

This was what pushed me to get the a6600, the autofocus on the fast Sigma primes is quite adequate, good even, and IBIS means I can do some video off-the-hand if I'm careful. The much larger battery was also a factor.

My use case also involves a fair amount of tripod work, and I even picked up a gimbal just recently.

So I'm glad that Sigma is making lenses which are cheaper / better for the price by leaving out OSS, because there are ways to not need it. If you figure OSS would cost another $200 per lens, which seems a little low but is in the ballpark, then with the Sigma 'trio' of 1.4 primes, the difference between the a6100 and a6600 is just about a wash.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#202

Post by cromulent »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #35
dbrgn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about the clasification? From what I heard the main issue is often cooling. Cameras and sensors are often not engineered as video capturing devices, so recording time needs to be limited to prevent overheating. Often you cannot just stop and re-start the recording after the recording limit, because the camera is still too hot, it will stop recording after a few seconds. At least this is how it works for…

Well, it was what was explained to me by a marketing manager. The cooling thing hasn't been an issue for many years, since they changed their sensor design. Might also be a power-consumption thing, as the shutter needs to be kept open (I don't think they are using virtual shutters, yet), as well as (for DSLRs) the mirror.

I don't know much about the topic, but I noticed this the other day:

https://www.diyphotography.net/this-guy-liquid-cooled-his-ca...

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#203

Post by dsego »

meowzero wrote: post #152
dsego wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an x-t30 and my phone can't even compare. It's an entry level Samsung and those have really bad and slow cameras, esp in low light. A flagship might be a different story. Tbh, I wasn't that impressed with the fuji camera with the included 15-45 kit lens, which is rather mediocre. But after getting the 35mm f2 I can really appreciate the difference in the quality of photos. The other part is doing a course on p…

I shoot manual with my X-T2 most of the time, especially during portrait shooting. But shooting manual on a DSLR is not the panacea. You only need manual mode in certain situations. Heck, I read pros like David Alan Harvey uses full auto setting on his camera sometimes (probably a lot of other pros too). On my iPhone 12, I have exposure compensation on the main camera app. And that is good enough as well.

Sure, I don't use full manual either, but after being forced to practice I can say that it made me more aware of what the camera is doing. I can track the settings and if the camera chose a slow shutter speed, I can understand that stuff can become blurry. Then I can adjust manually to compensate. Or when the sun is harsh, I will dial down the exposure comp. In general, I adjust either the aperture or speed, but let the ISO work automatically. I can now notice mistakes earlier, when the auto wb or the meter are wrong. I also have a better sense of where each setting should be to get a good result.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#204

Post by michaelt »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #26
colechristensen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is stupid, it’s just because you can’t. Most Nikon models don’t have a clean hdmi output and limit video recording to twenty minutes.

The twenty minute thing is because of device classification. If a device records twenty minutes or more of continuous video, it is classified as a video device, which changes the regulatory structure. If you watch movies, these days, it's almost unheard of for a single shot to be more than a minute or two in length. Even films like 1917 are really digitally-stitched montages. I think the real reason is that Canon is…

> If you watch movies, these days, it's almost unheard of for a single shot to be more than a minute or two in length.

Ironically, the low end of the market seems more interested in lengthy shots.

You're right that lengthy shots are unusual in pro film - but people streaming on twitch/youtube routinely record a 4-hour video in a single take. If you're a youtuber shooting an interview with a single camera and no crew, you want it to keep recording and you can edit it down later. Action cameras will keep recording no matter how long your ski run is. Someone recording a sports match or school play or band concert or lecture will want continuous recording. Drone videographers don't want to worry that if they're delayed taking off, the recording will end mid-flight.

Of course, how many people really need or will watch a full length video of little bobby's soccer match? Or need a DSLR to video it rather than a cell phone? Those are different questions...

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#205

Post by sudosysgen »

iad wrote: post #194
te_chris wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing a modern phone to a very old camera in DSLR terms. Much like the nokia you probably had in 2008, things have very much moved on.

Are there DSLRs with image processing features like Google's "Night Shot"? Where you can take a very long hand-held exposure and it will never be blurry?

Not quite but close. My Sony A7ii will take a 2/3s of a second exposure by stacking four shorter exposures and using stabilization.

2/3 of a second with an f/2 or f/2.8 lens means you can take pictures lit by not much more than starlight.

Actually, even without this, with an F/1.4 lens I can take a handheld picture using only light pollution.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#206

Post by Razengan »

pier25 wrote: post #192

Apple could obliterate the pro video and DSLR market with all it has learned about sensors and image processing in the past decade. It would only need to release a pro body like Red, Black Magic, etc, supporting different mounts (Nikon F, etc) and an integrated workflow with Final Cut. It has already done that for the consumer market and part of the enthusiast market... My guess as to why Apple hasn't done it yet is…

While an Apple Camera would be interesting to see (and why not, given that they've just entered the headphones market, at the risk of cannibalizing Beats), I think it's more likely that they'd want iPhones to remain the all-in-one digital camera kit.

Maybe introduce a way to attach extra lens as MagSafe accessories some day.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#207

Post by sudosysgen »

foldr wrote: post #196
criley2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university facility, that work better than some $500 lens -- and the latter are expensive because they are hard to make the traditional way. I find this very fascinating because while I enjoy my ever-increasing smartphone camera and use it as a daily driver, I have a about 13 year old Canon DSLR (one of the first one they made now)…

>Doing great things with 10X less light is impressive, but at some point, you need a big sensor and good quality glass. This problem is basically solved already by taking multiple exposures and blending them in software. Once we're at the point where stacking 10 exposures works reliably even in challenging conditions (and we're pretty nearly there with the latest phones) then many of the advantages of a larger sensor…

There are still a great many. First, much greater resolution. Then, being able to take pictures of things going fast, then also being able to take non-blurry pictures in very low light, then there is the dynamic range, and then there is also constant aperture zoom as well as telephoto focal ranges.

Lenses on phones are limited by diffraction. They can never provide the quality of a larger lens because their aperture is so small that their airy disk is often over the size of a pixel.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#208

Post by [deleted] »

mmaunder wrote: post #183

Is it possible to capture raw photons using a digital sensor, right before they would have entered a lens front element. Then simulate lens refraction through multiple elements in software? This would allow you to change out lenses in post production. Anyone done any work on this?

[deleted]

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#209

Post by iamatworknow »

LandR wrote: post #170
ghaff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigma used to be one of the brands you bought because you didn't have the money for the camera manufacturer's lens. Now, they have unique models in a number of cases. I still have mostly Canon glass but I have a couple Sigma models because Canon doesn't have the equivalent.

Haven't used a sigma lense for years. Are they now comparable quality to NIkon/Canon lenses?

They're way better than they used to be. I have a few Sigma "Art" lenses that are incredible, at half the price (at least at the time) of the Nikon equivalents.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#210

Post by tristor »

robotmay wrote: post #11

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

I'm really sad to see this happen as well. I've been a Nikon user for 3 decades myself. Canon has always historically had better lenses and Nikon has had better bodies but lots of third party support. I do have some Nikon primes, but most of my lenses are made in Japan by Sigma or made in Japan or Germany by Zeiss. I have had exactly two lenses made outside of Japan by Nikon from their consumer line, and both were subpar optically compared to the Japanese made lenses in their pro line-up. It's such a stark difference, in fact, that I have taken to mostly buying used consumer lenses from the earlier auto-focus days (1973 - 1998) because these lenses are on par with the optical clarity of current generation pro lenses if cleaned professionally. You can usually acquire one for a significant cost reduction compared to buying a new pro lense and have it cleaned locally by the camera shop and get something really quite good. That's how I acquired my 600mm, 500mm, 400mm, and 300mm telephotos for birding, as well as my 50mm f/1.2 prime for general use.

Seems if I add any lenses to my collection I'll be buying used or new from Sigma/Zeiss. I saw the shift happening already and had mostly already been doing that. I will say the new PF series pro lenses with fresnel lens elements are really great though. While I still have my older 300mm, I also got the new pro series 300mm prime from Nikon as it's significantly smaller and lighter weight, doesn't even require a lens foot and can be shot hand-held if you have a steady grip. I suppose I should start budgeting to acquire the 500mm version of the PF lens before they move production out of Japan as I find it unlikely I'd buy anything else that's Nikon branded for lenses. For shorter focal length stuff Zeiss is far far superior.

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