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Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

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Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#61

Post by iaw »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #26

It’s interesting seeing how tuition costs influence students. I go to a school infamous for its high price. And truth be told, I don’t think I could advocate going here barring some serious prerequisites. One of which is having some idea of what to study. The classic idea of college being a place to mess around and figure out what to do with your life is absolutely delusional with tuition so high. Go figure out what…

> I go to a school infamous for its high price. And truth be told, I don’t think I could advocate going here barring some serious prerequisites.

I went to a similar school. The benefits are not granted when you attend the school but afterward in the alumni network and the reputation of the school. I get in a lot more doors than I rightfully should given my qualifications because my school was more expensive (and thus prestigious) than most.

It shouldn't be the way it is but the benefits from getting a 'top-tier' education are more in signaling to people that they should consider you than actually giving you a better education. There's also the argument about the access you have as a student and alumni but I don't want to go on forever.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#62

Post by rconti »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #45
dogman144 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. The language I'm about to use pains me, but this is an extremely privileged take, or at least naive take, on what these loans do. Removing them will hurt about about a generation of students from the very low to the upper middle class set until the academic employment market adjusts. What do I mean? A simple, pragmatic fact is degree from a name-school, vs. a no-n…

These loans have destroyed any chance that a generation of underprivileged students will achieve financial prosperity. If they go away, the federally subsidized loan programs will likely be phased out over ~5 years or so. The private sector will replace them for students who are good bets, probably with income-share agreements or something similar and MUCH less predatory than the current federal loan programs.

>The private sector will replace them for students who are good bets, probably with income-share agreements or something similar and MUCH less predatory than the current federal loan programs.

[Citation needed]

We already know who the "good bets" are. They're the rich kids. And if you think "income sharing" and the private sector will drive rates down from a federally-subsidized ("predatory") rate, well, I don't know what to say.

I certainly don't think burying underprivileged students under a mountain of debt at graduation is a good thing. I'd very much like to see costs come way down, and I do agree that doing something about the loan system is a piece of the puzzle. But the reason the underprivileged are taking on this debt is that they're attempting to move up, in a way that avoiding debt by avoiding higher education will never achieve. Unfortunately, higher education has become the only way to hang on to an otherwise-falling standard of living; wage stagnation despite increasing education level.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#63

Post by NortySpock »

swebs wrote: post #25
djsumdog wrote: post #4

> cut its tuition by $10,000 for all new students I find it insane tuition is that high. I finished grad school before 2010, and at least with the smaller state schools I went to, total cost of tuition and books was in the $3k~$5k range. Boutique schools like Vanderbilt were like $25k+ (per semester). I had a friend who got a free ride there for graduate school, and he said it wasn't really that different than our st…

>Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. They've allowed students to enter into debt, the only long term contracts kids under 18 can legally sign, for something they can never declare bankruptcy on. I think that's something that many people would agree with, but how do we go forward with making that happen?

Income Sharing Agreement - You go to school, possibly with a small stipend, and in return the school gets (say) 10% of the first 7 years of your income, possibly capped at a max repayment amount.

https://www.purdue.edu/dfa/types-of-aid/income-share-agreeme...

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#64

Post by ishjoh »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #52
djsumdog wrote: post #4

> cut its tuition by $10,000 for all new students I find it insane tuition is that high. I finished grad school before 2010, and at least with the smaller state schools I went to, total cost of tuition and books was in the $3k~$5k range. Boutique schools like Vanderbilt were like $25k+ (per semester). I had a friend who got a free ride there for graduate school, and he said it wasn't really that different than our st…

To get a bit nuanced I read, that the subsidy is not the primary problem. It is the guarantee of payment, even on default by the student is the problem. That is what must go away.

Can you send me that study/article, would love to read it.

What I did come across a while back was a study done by the NY FED. On the effect of the amount of available credit and tuition rates, they found that increased loan availability did increase tuition costs, but they looked at subsidized and unsubsidized loans and how much they increased the tuition cost. They found:

"We estimate tuition effects of changes in institution-specific program maximums of about 60 cents on the dollar for subsidized loans and 15 cents on the dollar for unsubsidized loans"

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff...

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#65

Post by WaitWaitWha »

ishjoh wrote: post #64
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get a bit nuanced I read, that the subsidy is not the primary problem. It is the guarantee of payment, even on default by the student is the problem. That is what must go away.

Can you send me that study/article, would love to read it. What I did come across a while back was a study done by the NY FED. On the effect of the amount of available credit and tuition rates, they found that increased loan availability did increase tuition costs, but they looked at subsidized and unsubsidized loans and how much they increased the tuition cost. They found: "We estimate tuition effects of changes in…

Misunderstanding - "I read..." as in, I interpreted the post I am responding to.

(I have an excuse, as English not my first language, but not excusable. Sorry.)

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#66

Post by Nbox9 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #45
dogman144 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. The language I'm about to use pains me, but this is an extremely privileged take, or at least naive take, on what these loans do. Removing them will hurt about about a generation of students from the very low to the upper middle class set until the academic employment market adjusts. What do I mean? A simple, pragmatic fact is degree from a name-school, vs. a no-n…

These loans have destroyed any chance that a generation of underprivileged students will achieve financial prosperity. If they go away, the federally subsidized loan programs will likely be phased out over ~5 years or so. The private sector will replace them for students who are good bets, probably with income-share agreements or something similar and MUCH less predatory than the current federal loan programs.

This is hyperbolic. There are plenty of people with underprivileged backgrounds and student loans that have achieved financial prosperity.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#67

Post by ishjoh »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #65
ishjoh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you send me that study/article, would love to read it. What I did come across a while back was a study done by the NY FED. On the effect of the amount of available credit and tuition rates, they found that increased loan availability did increase tuition costs, but they looked at subsidized and unsubsidized loans and how much they increased the tuition cost. They found: "We estimate tuition effects of changes in…

Misunderstanding - "I read..." as in, I interpreted the post I am responding to. (I have an excuse, as English not my first language, but not excusable. Sorry.)

no need to apologize :)

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#68

Post by WaitWaitWha »

toyg wrote: post #58
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get a bit nuanced I read, that the subsidy is not the primary problem. It is the guarantee of payment, even on default by the student is the problem. That is what must go away.

That would set you back to where you were before the related law was enacted, though: droves of kids going to school with public money, then declaring bankruptcy. Public finances were getting robbed and kids had their future compromised anyway (bankruptcy is no joke).

Maybe the schools should have to be partially on the hook, at best financially in some way, or indirectly by a score of failed/drop out/bankrupt students?

Student selection & preparation would get better. Maybe it would trickle down to High Schools.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#70

Post by CyberDildonics »

kube-system wrote: post #35
CyberDildonics wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time and life end up teaching those things because normal interactions end up teaching those things. This is ascribing four years of interacting with other people to colleges. Four years of work experience in a given job makes someone far more valuable than four years of college preparing to start the same job. College isn't the only place to learn. Art history can be studied as a hobby any time in life. The idea tha…

Vocational schools already exist, if students want to attend one, they already can. Liberal arts schools are very intentionally not that. It is certainly possible to learn broad range of subjects outside of a structured environment, but it is improbable, which is why we value structured educations.

The idea that it is learning outside a structured environment is "improbable" is part of the problem. Most college isn't very structured in the first place.

I think it is a problem with expectations. Kids seem to take on massive debt, then wonder why the job they get after spending four years at a school taking lots of classes that have nothing to do with the skills they need doesn't pay well enough to make their debt seem worthwhile.

The truth is that lots of kids are pushed into a path that wastes a huge amount of their time, energy and money, because what they need to actually become valuable is going to happen after they graduate.

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